Who needs wholesalers/LFS/etailers, let's do a group buy

[dizzy]

Dizzy,
There are already wholesalers that caiter specifically to retailers. Some retailers ask for change and when it is available chose not to support the vision. What i think it is, is that some retailers actually want to see the most devious ones change :roll: but the real question is why? why wait around is my point.

Tropic,
I agree it is the most devious wholesalers that I would like to see change. The point of my posting is that I believe it is already to late for that to happen. I really don't mean to paint all wholesalers with the same brush, but if wholesalers are really going to stick up for retail they need to stand up and tell us who they are. And No Spin Please. I have already made the personal decison not to buy from the ones that are doing the most damage to retailers. Even if this means it costs my business in the process. (So far I don't believe it has.) So if you're a wholesaler and you want to see retail survive how about stepping up and pluging yourself now.

PS
I just wonder how much longer the larger etailers will even need the 'hoesalers? It makes little sense for them to continue to pay wholesale when they can buy direct from the collectors.

 

[clarionreef]

Steve,
Do you think the evolution of this model will follow HI and attempt to bypass wholesale?

Of course not.
Only lightweight , American companies can ship without 'international' customs and wildlife paperwork and without frieght minimums and without a need to market the basic stuff in volume ...WEEKLY....to stay solvent.
Sure, this project will be noted for cheapening goldflake angels and perhaps a few more nice fish but the chincey, fastidious, cherry picky attitudes of hobbyists will wear on them and week after week....then again, once this customer base fills up on Hawaiian fish, how often can it order?
When you sell to wholesale or even retail, you are selling to hundreds of tanks that need re-fills all the time.
When you sell to a narrow slice of the public...how often will the re-fill be?
Also....the reef unfriendly nature of Hawaiian fish will attract small following. Its not like acans or milliporas going for 1/2 off.
Steve
PS.Divers in the Gilbert Islands have died catching this fish. Now it gets sold in the on-line flea market at discount rates?
Oh, no one thought these guys caught some did they? They just bought em from another dealer...as they don't even live in Hawaii.
I thought hobby groups had a loftier mission then this.

 

[clarionreef]

Mitch,
We are not allowed to plug ourselves here are we?
If so...
I have the world record kicking out even cherrypickers with a sellers permit in hand as they hurt the selections of more loyal out of town customers.
Kicking out hobbyists is automatic, absolute and not debateable.
Stabbing your own customers in the back by selling out the back door is just stupid and cheapens livestock for the rest of the trade.
Steve

 

[dizzy]

I'm not sure what the rules are anymore. This industry is kind of like the scene from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. One of the group challenges Butch to fight for the leadership of the gang. Butch says ok but let's get the rules straight first. The guys says "Rules? In a knife fight! What Rules?" Caught off-guard, Butch kicks him in the nuts since there were no rules.

I don't see how explaining company policy would violate anything. What do you think Thales?

 

[dizzy]

Opps

 

[Tropic]

What are the rules? When i cut my teeth in wholesale i had a vague understanding of what the rules are supposed to be. After years of exposure to the reality of the aquarium trade, i decided to take a hard line approach to supplying retail stores only. Has it worked? not yet. It seems to me that many retail stores are actually complacent in there will to survive. When you mention your ethics to them as a supplier they like the way it sounds, agree, but then continue supporting the very ones that do them in. Sure i get my fair share of sales, but the LA crowd gets more. I know it isnt that they get superior stock; they dont, but they do get superior sales. My company isnt one of the big guys. Honestly, we are not trying to be the biggest....just the best. I can not plug myself because i think it would be unfair to many other good suppliers that are looking for good grace.

 

[Anonymous]

. The guys says "Rules? In a knife fight! What Rules?" Caught off-guard, Butch kicks him in the nuts since there were no rules.

:lol:

 

[Anonymous]

The rules he was referring to I believe are the rules of the forum.

 

[clarionreef]

Tropic,
After selling net caught fish for 20 years I don't think I had more than 5 customers who did it on moral grounds.
What variety there was, what was on sale, good packing and total landed cost was far and away the key factors.
But just because the retailer community doesn't support you cannot mean that breaking the rules is justified.
If people cut in front of you in the bank line....are you therefore justified to do it to others?
If rude punk surfers cut in front of old-school surfers endangering everyone...are you therefore justified.
If you can't market fish thru the chain to support the hive, are you therefore going to give it away as bitter revenge?
In a can't beat em join em...eye for an eye world, we all end up alone...and blind.
This is what happens when order breaks down...chaos reigns. Ahhh... chaos...the essence of free enterprise.
And when it applies to limited wildlife...with multiplying political and legal restrictions...that theory also breaks down.
The new generation seems to have a lot of rebels without a cause or a philiosophy of life....except the self.
Steve

 

[dizzy]

These are the rules that made it into the sticky, so I guess they matter most:

Thales Wrote:

"You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful,
threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any
applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently
banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all
posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the
webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to
remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit.


This in no way means that you shouldn't post 'hard' topics or that you shouldn't respond with passion."

It doesn't say anything about not explaining how your business works.

 

[Tropic]

Steve,
What are you talking about? Retailers do support me, and i support them. My point was, that retailers have the ability to chose who they buy from. They buy from LA and also me. Many of the retailers know that many of the big boys are supplying places like Fosters and Smith, yet the retailer will still patronize these wholesalers.They could be funneling their money to wholesalers who give a damn. I would say you are one who cares. Honestly, i dont need a website like Reefs.org to market my company....a shameless plug is exactly that. I think your perception of what my attitude is, is off keel...i actually visualize a trade that works for all, not just me, and the last thing i want to do is tear down my own livelyhood or anyone else's. I have a heart and a mind, buddy!

I do think that the largest of wholesalers who have enabled large etail operations have done the industry a disservice. Their vision has no future, only an end.Unfortunately, the people that do care, are not household names yet but are behind the scenes working diligently! :wink:

Dude, i am the guy that tells the person cutting in line at the bank to wait his turn! 8)

 

[clarionreef]

Eric,
I ment you...metaphorically. Not actually you.
Steve

 

[Kalkbreath]

I thought the guy with the most money , is supposed to cut in line at the bank?
Well, thats how it happens on 104th street...... :wink:

 

[clarionreef]

Mitch,
In honor of you I just kicked one out yesterday;

" 2 male ventralis and thats it? "I asked...
"Yes, I'm finished..." he says.
"Then I guess you are..." I add with a polite goodbye.
How bout a red mushroom to make minimum? He protested.
What...you gonna pay rent with that?
Hobbyists...support your local LFS or pass your days online but don't come here.
What part of wholesale onlys not clear.? Geeezz....
These guys typically try to crash the gate with a service guys permit....cherrypick all the best stuff and whine to the notion of making minimum. They ruin the selection for the real dealers who support a real wholesaler so they gots ta go.
With the roll up door, I can kick out 8 a time.
And thats how you insure that there are good fish left to go to Indiana or Cleveland...Portland or Tampa.
Its not anti-cherrypicker so much as pro-dealer.
Steve
PS.
A quick Google Earth search shows wether or not the adress is a business front to be a private house. Its getting harder to fib now.

 

[Anonymous]

Good job Steve! I know when we are picking wherever we are, we generally try to not pick everything. I figure there is enough business to go around and we don't have to shut anyone out by gobbling up all the good stuff.

 

[clarionreef]

Thanks Rich,
Com'on wholesalers...
Heres your chance to show how much you regard the rules of engagement.
Are you a front door Fred or a backdoor Bensen?
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I guess in the scheme of things, I really don't care if wholesalers sell to the public. What bothers me is when it is a secret and/or against stated policy. After all, its their business and they can run it the way they want to as long as they are properly set up for retail sales and sales tax.

 

[clarionreef]

as they are properly set up for retail sales and sales tax.

Oh...like Heidi Fleiss's tax routine.
...that does not and would not happen as it would be an admission of dealing to the retailers own customers!.
Steve

 

[dizzy]

Gone

 

[Anonymous]

as they are properly set up for retail sales and sales tax.

Oh...like Heidi Fleiss's tax routine.
...that does not and would not happen as it would be an admission of dealing to the retailers own customers!.
Steve

Or the failled drug stamp tax :lol: