Who needs wholesalers/LFS/etailers, let's do a group buy

[Anonymous]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... genumber=1

I found it odd when this same offer popped up in my local club forum. I didn't pay much attention, but then I ran across it in another forum. Looks like this has happenned at around 5 clubs I can see now. Wonder when the other 100+ join in, cut the whole indrustry out, beisdes the collector?

The collector is a member of RDO, alikatoes
, wonder if he'll chime in here

This is the collector: http://www.hawaiianreefer.com/pages/3/index.htm

 

[Anonymous]

Didn't he already do this and have his post deleted in the For Sale Forum?

Peace,

Chip

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe, but members of reef forums have contacted him, and several clubs have all ready done a group buy. The thread seems to keep popping up on more reef club forums now. I happen to cruz many of them, and I've seen the subject countless times now, but only a small handfull that have pulled the trigger.

 

[dizzy]

I'm seem to remember predicting this was where we headed back in one of the F$S threads, I believe. Kalk ridiculed the idea as unworkable. The quest for getting things cheaper has no limits. The cat is out of the bag now and I predict more clubs will follow suit.

 

[Anonymous]

Didn't he already do this and have his post deleted in the For Sale Forum?

That guy was in Orlando or somewhere near.

 

[Kalkbreath]

It would work from Hawaii though...........

 

[Douglas S Lehman]

Hello from Chicago
Not gonn'a happen here, we only do group buy's for MAC fish...

 

[spawner]

Hello from Chicago
Not gonn'a happen here, we only do group buy's for MAC fish...

You must have a really small group and only buy one or two species of fish. Maybe this is where all the MAC fish have gone.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello from Chicago
Not gonn'a happen here, we only do group buy's for MAC fish...

You must have a really small group and only buy one or two species of fish. Maybe this is where all the MAC fish have gone.

Yes... - Please explain.. - How are you finding and doing group buys on MAC fish?

 

[Rascal]

The thread has an interesting dynamic. Everyone is amped to see a price list and excited to see they can get a naso tang for $20, which would retail for $60 - 100.00 (I'm quoting). But then you see everyone following up with warranty questions on DOA's, who's going to acclimate, shipping and handling, etc...all things that likely most customers take for granted, but still try to discount, when shopping at a their LFS.

I can see it working here and there for the hobbyists that are zealous enough to put forth the risk. Maybe in the future it will gain acceptance. It wasn't too many years ago that the typical shopper shyed away from internet sales because of the 'risk' to their credit card. Need I say more?

 

[spawner]

Good point Butch, one or two loses or near loses and your savings are shot. Shipping from HI is about 1.80/lbs right now I think. Last time I transshiped (from INDO) to get some shrimp in that I couldn't get, they ended up pricing out at around retail. If you don't have a ton of volume then it's not worth it. Now then again, the collectors that directly sale on hobbyist in the Keys are doing really well. You can't really blame the collector or two in HI that wants to make a bit more profit than what they get from the LA guys or holding facilities in HI. Shops that order direct from HI sure get a better selection and prices.

Just nothing like picking out a fish that is tanked and eating well from a nice shop. Nothing like trying to save a buck either.

 

[Rascal]

HI to LAX, well that's a no brainer. But it will be interesting to see the next 'group buy' that goes to Orlando, or Richmond, or Cleveland, and the shipment gets delayed...held up in Atlanta, delayed because of weather, or transfered to the wrong airport. Again, the typical customer that comes into my store surely doesn't consider when that happens to me.

 

[JennM]

Well here's the collector's website http://www.hawaiianreefer.com/ Doesn't say he's a wholesaler - just says from the diver direct to you.

At least now some people are asking intelligent questions about acclimation etc. Of course they want to protect their @$$es with a DOA credit blah blah..or what the fill rate will be.

Of course who eats the air freight on 5 lbs of water with a DOA large fish in it?

I don't know - with that many thumbs in the pie it seems to me it could be a huge liability... what if somebody wants a 3" Naso and ends up with a 7" one for their 30 g?

What if somebody's stuff is DOA or DAA?

What if USFWS hangs up the shipment?

Just the nature of the 'wish list' people are posting tells me they have no clue how it all works.

The vast majority of customers have no clue about how the fish magically appear in my tanks every week. Some get perplexed when they place a specific order for something and it's just not available that week. It's like they think that these fish are stamped out of factories and just arrive by transporter beam... most have no clue and most don't care.

As long as it's cheap.

Jenn

 

[Rascal]

He is indeed a collector. I was receiving small availability lists from him some years ago, but those lists started to get bigger and bigger. I never ordered from him but selection was good and diverse. He has always impressed me as committed, and gotta give the guy props for that.

If he can maintain a good dialog with his 'group buy' customers, many concerns can be reduced or eliminated. But as it typically goes, and I've seen it countless times over the years with the suppliers I've used, promises and assurances get replaced by volume and decreased customer service.

So, in this case, the question is how big does Alikatoes want to get?

 

[JennM]

Well, I hope he realizes that if he's selling direct to hobbyists, at wholesale pricing, he's going to lose some support from retailers.

I've never heard of him - but given that he's doing this, I wouldn't be likely to buy from him.

His website wasn't very informative - that's for sure.

Flash-in-the-pan, one-shot group buy, versus pissing off regular customers - retailers who keep steady business coming in - not worth it IMO.

But hey - that's just me

Jenn

 

[dizzy]

Here is another that is doing basically the same thing. http://www.kaiohi.com/ It looks like they did a group buy for WMAS. If the format works I think it will grow. What they are doing is certainly no more harmful to retailers than the dropshipping wholesalers. In a way it is sort of funny seeing the wholesalers get cut out too. I know many of them already allow the clubs to come in their facilities and sell direct to them at wholesale prices. Now the clubs want to buy at what the wholesalers buy for. :lol:

 

[JennM]

I'd bet that many/most retailers don't know that some of their suppliers are stabbing them in the back.

Too bad - clubs and the like make up a tiny percentage of hobbyists, just as etail only grabs a piece of the pie.

My humble little shop has over 1200 customers. I think the local reef club has *maybe* 300, and most of those bought a membership for a discount card that affords them a discount from 'sponsor' stores - usually 10%. I started that club although I'm not involved with it anymore - I recruited many (most?) of the charter members, so I might even have a higher percentage of clients who are members, than other stores - and there are a few stores with much larger client bases than mine - so the club makes up a tiny fraction of their business.

Given that a retailer sells to everyone - club members and non, and typically a retailer will order more volume, more frequently, it's a bad move for a collector or wholesaler to bite the hands that feed them by bypassing... like I said, I wouldn't support a supplier that I knew had done this.

Unfortunately not too many LFS owners etc., seem to peruse these boards, although I think more lurk than post, and perhaps more lurk than we may think... but unless word of this type of thing got out, and the suggestion to voice opposition with buying dollars was made, it will likely go on.

However one bad group buy, or somebody getting stuck with crazy freight or a shipment DOA because it got hung up in Customs or F&W, might turn the hobbyist groups off. Time will tell.

Jenn

 

[Rascal]

I'm certainly not sticking up for the guy, but Hawaii has been self limited in regards to wholesalers, largely because of Spank-me divers. They have the overwhelming buying power, and have made it difficult at best for the others. Add to that the increased availability of X-mas Island flights, and X-mas flame angels...well, ask yourself when the last time you say a true Hawaiian Flame Angel was. To some degree I give the the guy credit for going against the grain and NOT succumbing to the pressure of Yankee Divers.

Like I said, I was getting his list for years, and never bought a thing from him. I would guess he has bills just like you and I, and would likely prefer to sell to stores than those high maintenance group buyers.

 

[Anonymous]

The vast majority of customers have no clue about how the fish magically appear in my tanks every week. Some get perplexed when they place a specific order for something and it's just not available that week. It's like they think that these fish are stamped out of factories and just arrive by transporter beam... most have no clue and most don't care.
Jenn

Going to FedEx to ship stuff results in questions every single time. I also always get the "Wow, you can ship fish like that?"

To which I reply...how do you think they got to the store? So far no one has answered.

 

[dizzy]

I think the local reef club has *maybe* 300, and most of those bought a membership for a discount card that affords them a discount from 'sponsor' stores - usually 10%.

Jenn

Jenn,
I think some might give a better discount than that. I went around to a few stores when I drove down to Orlano for the APPMA show last year. This was apparently before kalk had the largest selection of cultured clams and acros in the world. :roll: If you exit his store and go left, and then turn right a few blocks up there is a store on the right next to the Petsmart. The store was nice and the staff knowledgeable. I told him I was a retailer just passing though and did not try and trick him. Anyway the guy told me they gave club members upwards of 25% discount. I was shocked and he admitted it was too high, but seemed to indicate other stores did as well. Perhaps a lot has changed in 18 months or so.
Mitch