I would say that group buys are a lot of work. The point of them being inconsistant is quite true. The point brought up about cherry pickers is damn true. I understand why yall wholesalers kick hobbiest out. Making a quick buck is great but it really kills the longterm. This was pointed out to me by a much more experienced diver than myself.
On the other hand, I still believe that some wholesalers are supporting bad conservation techinques. Wholesalers are great at business but do yall really know or care where your fish come from? I have heard much disscussion about the long term effects of group buys, relative to business. Have you considered the long term effects on the natural populations and how that will effect your business. We catch these fish, we dont manufacture them.
On the other hand, I still believe that some wholesalers are supporting bad conservation techinques. Wholesalers are great at business but do yall really know or care where your fish come from? I have heard much disscussion about the long term effects of group buys, relative to business. Have you considered the long term effects on the natural populations and how that will effect your business. We catch these fish, we dont manufacture them.
Rascal":3b2a549i said:
In Hawaii cyanide is not an issue. The greater issue is mismanagement of our coral reef resources. Even if you recieved your fish in perfect health doesnt mean it has no effect on the place that it came from. Again, ordering cans of a particular species may be detremental to the general health of the local reefs. Just becasue you and your clients got what you want doesnt mean you should turn a blind eye to the source. It would be a big step if all COLLECTERs/WHOLESALERS/RETAILERS cared about the quality of the fish, but it would be a giant step for mankind if they cared where they came from.
I dont mean to be critical of just wholesaler s becasue ALL collecters have a responsibility too. We all depend on this industry for income, and that sometimes brings the worst of us out. Most divers know better here in Hawaii, its just a matter of follwing the law/conscious. Education of complex interactions of reef/ocean/terrestrial ecosystems would greatly help all collectors. Then they will know better and have a choice. PErhaps too perfect of a world.
Not really sure what you're asking, or even if you're talking to me.
I have an opinion that the wholesalers do a good job of doing what thery're meant to do. Purchase fish, etc. and get them ready for the next stage... a LFS holding system. It's the LFS owner's responsibility to maintain those fish and finish the acclimation process started by the wholesaler/importer.
I also have an opinion that some of the stock is really beyond hope and can't be saved under normal cost effective conditions. That might be due to collection, pre-export, transportation, or import holding tank conditions. Heck, could be a combination of some or all of those reasons.
My only point in reposting that linked thread was to refresh your memories on why most of you in this sub-forum are needed in the hobby. It's a sad thing indeed that so many of those fish first had to parish for those that participated in the group buy to understand that. Also sad that when those who lost fish in that transaction tried to explain why it might not be such a good idea for others to try it again...
SteveU
I have an opinion that the wholesalers do a good job of doing what thery're meant to do. Purchase fish, etc. and get them ready for the next stage... a LFS holding system. It's the LFS owner's responsibility to maintain those fish and finish the acclimation process started by the wholesaler/importer.
I also have an opinion that some of the stock is really beyond hope and can't be saved under normal cost effective conditions. That might be due to collection, pre-export, transportation, or import holding tank conditions. Heck, could be a combination of some or all of those reasons.
My only point in reposting that linked thread was to refresh your memories on why most of you in this sub-forum are needed in the hobby. It's a sad thing indeed that so many of those fish first had to parish for those that participated in the group buy to understand that. Also sad that when those who lost fish in that transaction tried to explain why it might not be such a good idea for others to try it again...
SteveU
For a second there, i thought you were one of the ones that was involved in the group buy, and you were reminding Hawaiianreefer of the incident. Your thoughts on why the aquarium trades infrustructure is necessary, but only works when all the components are working is right on the money.I couldnt have said it better myself!
GreshamH":2dm5zx8y said:
And here I thought forums such as these (and those) weren't for commercial gain, except by paid advertisers...
For some reason I keep thinking of a sign my old mechanic back home used to have hanging behind his front counter....
"The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweet price is forgotten."
I don't know why that keeps coming to mind.......
Jenn
I wonder what your opinons are on that matter......
Once a year, I allow all the local clubs group together for a Saturday shopping spree at our wholesale facility. It's a cash and carry...and I do it not for the sales, but as a good gesture to the hobbyists that are involved in the clubs.
Do you think that's wrong? I would re-consider if people or my customers thought I was doing something terribly wrong.
Now on the other topic, I have been purchasing from Hawaiian collectors that also sell direct to retailers....maybe even hobbyists from time to time. Some small collectors are easier to deal with, but also collect items that are hard for me to source otherwise.
Comments?
Once a year, I allow all the local clubs group together for a Saturday shopping spree at our wholesale facility. It's a cash and carry...and I do it not for the sales, but as a good gesture to the hobbyists that are involved in the clubs.
Do you think that's wrong? I would re-consider if people or my customers thought I was doing something terribly wrong.
Now on the other topic, I have been purchasing from Hawaiian collectors that also sell direct to retailers....maybe even hobbyists from time to time. Some small collectors are easier to deal with, but also collect items that are hard for me to source otherwise.
Comments?
Eric,
Are you charging the club hobbyists wholesale or retail pricing? I would suspect that if you allow them in once, people will try and come back again later without the club. Please explain why you think it would not be competing with, (taking business from) your retail customers when you do this. To me this sounds like another example of how the wholesalers are not protecting the retailers that buy from them. Of course when compared to the dropshipping style schemes it really isn't all that big a deal.
Thanks,
Mitch
PS
From what I have heard SDC is not the only wholesaler allowing the clubs to come shopping. Where is the incentive to continue to support local stores when this is allowed? I think the problem is when one wholesaler starts doing something the others often follow suit, without considering the damage it could possibly be doing to their retailer customers. Of course allowing the clubs in does not hurt the retailers in other states but dropshipping sure does.
Are you charging the club hobbyists wholesale or retail pricing? I would suspect that if you allow them in once, people will try and come back again later without the club. Please explain why you think it would not be competing with, (taking business from) your retail customers when you do this. To me this sounds like another example of how the wholesalers are not protecting the retailers that buy from them. Of course when compared to the dropshipping style schemes it really isn't all that big a deal.
Thanks,
Mitch
PS
From what I have heard SDC is not the only wholesaler allowing the clubs to come shopping. Where is the incentive to continue to support local stores when this is allowed? I think the problem is when one wholesaler starts doing something the others often follow suit, without considering the damage it could possibly be doing to their retailer customers. Of course allowing the clubs in does not hurt the retailers in other states but dropshipping sure does.
Mitch,
I hear ya! I am very strict when it comes to hobbyists walking in our doors. I even will kick out customers if they bring their customers in with them which used to happen often. We do sell lot's of maintenance business's and it used to be an issue when they would bring their customers in the warehouse to shop with them. NO WAY.
I have had other clubs call me, just this week even to do a purchase, but I won't allow it other than once a year....and all the clubs have to come in at the same time. I do offer them pretty much wholesale prices....and it's funny, because mostly what they buy is janitorial inverts.....most of their tanks are full anyway.
I think it's more of a pleasure to walk around and see all the varieity, and it also gives me an opportunity to speak to the club about issues we are involved in relating the the industry or environment....and also disease control etc..
I do hear ya though about other wholesalers would offer the same, and too much of that is a bad thing.
Thanks for your comments, I value them.
Best regards....
I hear ya! I am very strict when it comes to hobbyists walking in our doors. I even will kick out customers if they bring their customers in with them which used to happen often. We do sell lot's of maintenance business's and it used to be an issue when they would bring their customers in the warehouse to shop with them. NO WAY.
I have had other clubs call me, just this week even to do a purchase, but I won't allow it other than once a year....and all the clubs have to come in at the same time. I do offer them pretty much wholesale prices....and it's funny, because mostly what they buy is janitorial inverts.....most of their tanks are full anyway.
I think it's more of a pleasure to walk around and see all the varieity, and it also gives me an opportunity to speak to the club about issues we are involved in relating the the industry or environment....and also disease control etc..
I do hear ya though about other wholesalers would offer the same, and too much of that is a bad thing.
Thanks for your comments, I value them.
Best regards....
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