Who needs wholesalers/LFS/etailers, let's do a group buy

[sdcfish]

No...the Tropical Fish Outlet post didn't piss me off...... Like Jen said, "I guess I may not have been specific enough in my question".

Maybe they could have elaborated, but if I were in their position, I might have taken the same approach and just answered the question.

All their fish are "housed"......quarantined, medicated, fed etc......so they really said the truth. I know what Jen meant, but they are a local Los Angeles company that pick their own fish very often....so you could say that all their livestock is housed vs. transhipped.

As far as Kalk's comments about retailers closing....we all do wish Makin Waves the best...it is very sad to see him go out so quickly and after such an amazing set up retail shop. I can't really say why he wasn't successful, but maybe we can lure him in here somehow to learn from their challenges.

We see more new stores opening each week than closing. I do not see many of our customers going out of business compared to the new stores going up....so what does that tell us?

Best regards...

 

[dizzy]

All their fish are "housed"......quarantined, medicated, fed etc......so they really said the truth.

Best regards...

So how do you know if they are being truthful? If you know so much how long are they quarantined and how much are they fed? And what are they medicated for? Are they fed and then shipped out?
Thanks,
Mitch

 

[sdcfish]

Mitch,

Sounds like that question is better answered by TFO. I don't feel it's appropriate for me to speak for them. If you want to know how we handle our fish, then I would be happy to elaborate.

Best regards....

 

[dizzy]

Mitch,

Sounds like that question is better answered by TFO. I don't feel it's appropriate for me to speak for them. If you want to know how we handle our fish, then I would be happy to elaborate.

Best regards....

Eric you already did speak for them when you said they were being honest. You (somewhat reluctantly) told us earlier in the thread that you are dropshipping for them. Didn't you? Do you quarantine the fish you dropship for them? How long do you quarantine them for? Do you medicate them? Do you fed them? If you fed them how often? Do you keep them awhile after you fed them before you ship them out?
Thanks,
Mitch

 

[Kalkbreath]

We see more new stores opening each week than closing. .so what does that tell us?

Best regards...

What counts is how many stores stay around.
Opening with SBA money and a dream is the easy part.
Turning a profit after the nest egg is gone ... is quite another.
New stores are a sign of nativity... not profitability.

 

[Anonymous]

please post statistics, or a link, to back up your claim-one either showing fewer lfs's in this country than 25 years ago, or an increase in closing rate over 25 years ago.

How about your local market Vitz.
Jeff got out of the retail thing, Newman is out after six months no longer maken waves. .....sure there are other taking their place , but these new stores are all deep pocket toys , they are not ment to make money ...running a fish store is a rich mans hobby just like Race said. They know they cant make money ,its something to blow money on like the horse track.

i really don't know the local market-but i can say this:

all of the retail stores i've worked in the states (in joisey, mass. and new hampshire) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, were already established before i worked for them, and EACH ONE is still in business.

SO I CONTEND that the retail b&m market cannot be suffering at all ! :idea:

 

[Kalkbreath]

We see more new stores opening each week than closing. .so what does that tell us?

Best regards...

What counts is how many stores stay around.
Opening with SBA money and a dream is the easy part.
Turning a profit after the nest egg is gone ... is quite another.
New stores are a sign of naivetivity... not profitability.

 

[Kalkbreath]

all of the retail stores i've worked in the states (in joisey, mass. and new hampshire) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, were already established before i worked for them, and EACH ONE is still in business.

Did they file bankruptcy, stiff all their creditors as a way of "STAYING" in Business? Your definition of staying in business is perhaps a tad different then mine.( Judging from you past posts.)
Only stores which are "thriving" can afford the funds to effectively attract the publics attention and lure them into taking the plunge.
Healthy advertising budgets and resources for charming display tanks in public places used to be the engine that drove this hobby.

Today, we all seem preoccupied with stealing each others customers instead of creating new ones of our own.

This is not going to work long term.

 

[rudylbj]

Thanks for editing my post so that it better conforms. Not meant to cause a problem, what was left still makes my points.

As others have now posted, Race layed it on pretty thick and anyone reading his post would see it as very self serving. OK, so he is trying to get more business calling for hobbyists to help fund his industry efforts. Do the folks in the industry in this forum feel that their efforts at being a profitable business would be considered a money making scheme by Race? How about that Race has self appointed himself as THE voice for this industry, does this concern anyone at all? Maybe he is a great spokesperson, but I don't think the industry asked him to be their spokesperson, and as THE voice of this industry how will he represent the average LFS, and all the other aspects on this industry?

Like it or not, to a growing extent his company is influencing many hobbyists and if he intends to be the voice for us all then maybe more dialog is needed with him, not hostile but would like to know how he intends to represent us all.

He stated his company was not set up as a money making scheme, that says to me a nonprofit. Then he says he is now the voice of this industry. Put the two statements together and this is very interesting to me at least. Is he and his not for profit organization now this industry's representative? If so, then we all need to work closer with him.

Sorry, I know this was not the intent of this thread originally, but at the time I posted Race had chimmed in and I thought it was relavant at that time. I'll be glad to start a new thread if it helps.

 

[pyrrhus]

Rudy,

I think starting that new thread would be an excellent idea.

 

[Anonymous]

all of the retail stores i've worked in the states (in joisey, mass. and new hampshire) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, were already established before i worked for them, and EACH ONE is still in business.

Did they file bankruptcy, stiff all their creditors as a way of "STAYING" in Business? Your definition of staying in business is perhaps a tad different then mine.( Judging from you past posts.)
Only stores which are "thriving" can afford the funds to effectively attract the publics attention and lure them into taking the plunge.
Healthy advertising budgets and resources for charming display tanks in public places used to be the engine that drove this hobby.

Today, we all seem preoccupied with stealing each others customers instead of creating new ones of our own.

This is not going to work long term.

:lol:

drop it, dude-both you and dizzy have yet to post any objective info on points you BOTH have started-you both luuuuuv to add an inane barb where none really belongs,and the answer to your q is that to the best of my knowledge-NO

again-MY experience in retail, based on stores I'M familiar with, indicate that the only reason for an lfs to go under at all, is poor quality and standards-i've always seen 'big box' stores HELP the lfs's i was working at

a wiser person than i once said-it is better to worry about what you do, than what your competition does-if you are the best at what you do, no one else will put you out of business :idea:

the ONLY thing any business owner has to blame for not succeeding is themselves-you cannot pin your own failures on someone else-though god knows, some love to try doing it

 

[Race]

I am 50 years old and I have made my living practicing veterinary medicine and operating DrsFosterSmith.com. I have been doing that for 24 years and it is time to slow down---- but I will never quit.

Today, my hobbies are selling live fish and corals as well as helping to operate the Veterinary Teaching Hospital at Michigan State University. Since both are hobbies, I have no desire to profit from either. I made my living another way. I am simply having fun and that is my right.

As I mentioned, I will work for and lead the aquarium hobbyist through the ever changing world of evolving buying habits. Technology has changed us all. I will cater to the hobbyist--- not the industry. In fact, I could care less how the rest of the industry conducts business. I will do things my way.

For those of you that think I am anti-retail. Far from it. The earth only has to make about 180 revolutions and you will see me participating in retail--- in a big way. I never said what my third hobby was going to be, but stay tuned.

Thanks, Race

 

[Kalkbreath]

I think he took the bait!

 

[rudylbj]

Thanks Race. Are you opening your own big box pet stores or buying out someone like PetSmart/PetCo?

 

[Race]

Confidential, but no.

 

[swsaltwater]

Post edited for violating the User Agreement Addendum; The Industry Behind the Hobby Forum. Futher violations may result in the revocation of posting privileges - Thales


I guess it's good news is more manufacturers are set to kill the special volume discounts etailers get. I heard today Coral Life is going to set Min MSRPs to allow LFS some room to be competative......I can only hope they all strip away the sweetheart deals they get.

 

[JennM]

I was wondering if you house your own specimens, or like Liveaquaria, do you have orders drop-shipped?

Thanks!

Jennifer

Today, 5 days later, on March 21, I received the following response...

"[email protected]" <[email protected]> hide details 12:55 am (22 hours ago)
to JennM <**********>
date Mar 21, 2007 12:55 AM
subject RE: Husbandry question

Dear Jennifer,



Thank you for visiting Tropical Fish Outlet. Yes, we do house our own specimens, and we only process on-line/phone orders. Our facility is not setup for customer drop ins. Please let us know if you have additional questions or if we can be of further assistance.



Thank you,

Member Support

Tropical Fish Outlet

Healthy Marine Life and Aquarium Supplies ~ Below Sea Level Prices

OK the way I see it the only message trying to be conveyed by TFO to me was that they have their own facility and they do NOT drop ship. Semantics aside, they never said they house some and drop ship others in fact they avoided the "drop ship" phrase altogether.

I guess I'll email them back and see what is said (If nobody's given them a heads up already!)

Jenn

 

[RichardS]

Also from the RC thread...

Some of you have asked " Why would you be content operating LiveAquaria as a break even financial entity". Here is why. First and foremost I am a veterinarian with a keen interest in the Industry behind the Aquarium Hobby. The operating of LiveAquaria.com as the developing " fish and coral cartel " is a hobby for me and I enjoy it. Additionally, it helps support our core business which is Animal Health.
When I entered the Industry Behind The Hobby about six years ago I found it full of snakes, and snakes do not belong in an aquarium. As a marketing strategy and a way to flush the snakes from the rocks I think it best to destroy the traditional infrastructure so that both the industry and the hobby may recover and survive. Case in point: AMDA, the American Marinelife Dealers Association would not let me participate as a member because I believe in your right as an aquarium owner to have fish and coral sent directly to your door rather than me tanking it in my retail store and making you drive to pick it up. Direct delivery with minimal acclimation is the best for the health of the livestock and generally the cheapest for the hobbyist. We should not band together as retailers to fight off dropshipping. Again, Dropshipping and Aquaculture facilities are the future, not the barrier. I have proven that over and over. I encourage all retailers to develop a web site and join in. The hobby wants and deserves it.


There currently is no voice to represent the hobbyist other than LiveAquaria.com and the Reef Clubs. I will continue to ask your support so that the LIVEAQUARIA.COM CARTEL may grow and secure even a greater supply of the best fish and coral.

As I mentioned, I am very much for the retailer as well as the aquaculturist and dropshipper. It takes all of us to make up an industry to supply you, the customer.

Hopefully this helps all of my customers appreciate my political motives. I will work for you without the sole intent of profiteering,---- it's my hobby too. I am passionate about this. That is why on another forum they correctly referred to me as "One Passionate Madman". I will accept the title with honor and charge forward with the customers interest at heart.

Race Foster, D.V.M.

No comments, but I thought interesting.

 

[Race]

Pretty much sums things up so I will not comment either. I know of no way to say it better, very eloquent.

Race

 

[Race]

swsaltwater,
When you own a 250 million dollar business the big boys will not take your discounts. In fact they had better give me deeper discounts in 2007 if they would like to keep me as a customer. We had a personal meeting last month with the biggest of them all and did not hear "nuttin" about taking discounts away, Quite to the contrary. That ain't how she works.