Who needs wholesalers/LFS/etailers, let's do a group buy

[JennM]

At the risk of kicking a beehive...

On March 16, I emailed a question to Tropical Fish Outlet...

Hello,

I was wondering if you house your own specimens, or like Liveaquaria, do you have orders drop-shipped?

Thanks!

Jennifer

Today, 5 days later, on March 21, I received the following response...

"[email protected]" <[email protected]> hide details 12:55 am (22 hours ago)
to JennM <**********>
date Mar 21, 2007 12:55 AM
subject RE: Husbandry question

Dear Jennifer,



Thank you for visiting Tropical Fish Outlet. Yes, we do house our own specimens, and we only process on-line/phone orders. Our facility is not setup for customer drop ins. Please let us know if you have additional questions or if we can be of further assistance.



Thank you,

Member Support

Tropical Fish Outlet

Healthy Marine Life and Aquarium Supplies ~ Below Sea Level Prices

I suppose if one wanted to argue semantics, perhaps they house *some* specimens, like Race and Marty do - but not "all"... I guess I may not have been specific enough in my question.

Have at it, kids

Jenn

 

[Race]

Race and Marty ship about 26% of their livestock from their Wisconsin facility. All new sales growth is from Wisconsin, hence our $500,000.00+ marine fish expansion project, which will be completed within 60 days in Wisconsin. The facility will be open for all to view at the June, 2007 Fish and Coral Conference held in Rhinelander, Wisconsin.

I will probably dropship until I dropdead--- but by design, it's relevancy is decreasing.

Since my name was mentioned, I wanted my facts accurate and public.

Thanks, Race

 

[dizzy]

Good morning Race,
Since you dropped in I have a question about drygoods. Do you bring in all the drygoods, (to WI) or do the manufacturers dropship items direct to the customers?
Thanks,
Mitch

 

[Race]

Hi Mitch,
I am more involved in the livestock and pharmacy end of things. To my knowledge, in aquatics, only the large aquarium setups are dropshipped. All other items are housed in Rhinelander and shipped from there. Inventory control is vitally important to us and most vendors fail at this as well as customer service. We like control. Dropshipping of hard goods is not something of interest to us.

Our entire shipping facility is open to the public during the June, 2007 Conference and if you would come, that may answer some questions.

Thanks, Race

 

[Race]

Hi again Mitch,
There may have been a couple of special order items or parts that we have asked vendors to ship directly. This happens a dozen or so times per year. Not regular stock items though, as far as I know.

Thanks, Race

 

[rudylbj]

The following posted by Race on RC.

Interesting that Race catagorizes for profit business as "money making schemes". So, "LiveAquaria's fish and coral cartel" is actually a not-for-profit!!! And "LIVEAQUARIA.COM is YOUR voice to the industry and has replaced the older concepts such as AMDA".

Post edited for violating the User Agreement Addendum; The Industry Behind the Hobby Forum. Futher violations may result in the revocation of posting privileges - Thales



"About LiveAquaria
A little known fact is that Drs. Foster and Smith and especially LiveAquaria loses money on it's shipping. This is not the case on short distance orders or packages that are extra lightweight and small.

The point is "AT THE END OF EVERY DAY, WE COLLECT LESS SHIPPING THAN WE PAY OUT TO THE SHIPPERS ". We actually ship packages at a loss. That is especially the case in our LiveAquaria.com division where every package is large in size and heavy in weight. In LiveAquaria alone , we lost over $300,000.00 in shipping fees in 2006,-- Thanks to high fuel costs and surcharges.

Please understand that I am EXPLAINING-- not complaining.

PLEASE READ

LiveAquaria.com was not intended to be a money making scheme but rather our labor of love and contribution to the hobby. I have never been shy about asking for help in the way of orders as there are no dues to be a friend and supporter of LiveAquaria's fish and coral cartel. If you keep ordering that will give us the buying power to purchase the elite of livestock and increase the supply lines, therefore offering even more.

LIVEAQUARIA.COM is YOUR voice to the industry and has replaced the older concepts such as AMDA, which never was, or will become, an industry leader to represent the hobbyist.

LIVEAQUARIA.COM and I will represent your industry political issues and it will not cost you a dime. All I ask is your business support--- NO DUES. Please spread the word and concept to fellow hobbyists.

Thank you and I will continue working for the hobbyist, that is my mission.

Race Foster
DrsFosterSmith.com
LiveAquaria.com"

 

[Anonymous]

Some new faces showing up, so a link to this is very important:

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=94369

RDO User Agreement Addendum: Industry Behind the Hobby Forum
Reefs.org seeks to nurture The Industry Behind the Hobby forum into a positive, constructive community. In pursuit of this goal, moderators will delete any accusatory or insulting post at their discretion. This forum is intended as a platform for hobbyist and industry insiders to share ideas with one another for the betterment of the hobby. This forum is not intended to air grievances, perpetuate grudges, nor document alleged shortcomings of individuals or institutions. While Reefs.org realizes these new moderating restrictions may impact the nature of some discussions, we believe it will make this forum more hospitable and constructive for all voices. The more voices that are able and willing to speak, the better off our hobby and industry will be.

 

[Race]

To keep things in perspective, you should bring over my other posts,---- they all relate.
In keeping with the desires of RDO I will not enter into any debates. I will read your comments but they may go without a reply.

 

[dizzy]

Thales you forgot to welcome Rudy to reefs.org. BTW I read his post before you edited it and didn't see anything inappropriate. Do you mind explaining what upset you about it?
Thanks,
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

Nothing upset me about it. The part I edited did seem to be 'accusatory or insulting' and I felt it might easily spark something that would make me have to ban people or lock threads which is something I want to avoid.


Rudy -
:welcome:

 

[dizzy]

But Thales you have got to admit that Race is laying it on pretty thick in the post that was brought over from Reef Central. Labor of love and losing money. :roll: And then claiming to be the chosen one to lead us to the reef keeping promise land. Those type of posts from Race and certain wholesalers are a slap in the face to those of us working 60-70 hrs/wk in this industry. If people are going to make those type of claims in public, they beg for sarcastic response. Of course as long as the are big advertisers on a site no dissenting viewpoints or criticism can be allowed.

I remember it wasn't so long ago you guys stated you wanted to start moderating more heavily so more people would post of this forum. Now when someone comes over you edit his very first post without so much as an a clear explanation. Like I said I read what he wrote and didn't see it as being anything that needed to be edited. What you do by editing is make Rudy look bad in the eyes of the people that didn't have the benefit of reading what he wrote. IMO that type of needless censorship is a disserve to the readers of reefs.org. I wouldn't blame Rudy if he never posted again. I wonder if anyone else saw that post and if they thought it was in need of being censored?
Mitch

 

[JennM]

I saw the entire post - I didn't think it needed to be edited. But then again, I don't moderate this forum.

I'm not surprised that it was though - and that's no disrespect meant for the mods - that's just the way it seems to go.

And being that it was a "new" poster (or perhaps an old one in disguise?!), that usually puts a moderator on alert if they think perhaps it's somebody looking to make trouble. I guess I can see both sides of the coin in this issue.

And Welcome Rudy!

And I guess it would only be fare to say, "Welcome Back, Race." It's been a year since your last post Seems there were a lot of passionate posts going back and forth then, also.

I'm surprised that nobody has commented on my morning post - seems that Race stole my thunder.

Jenn

 

[Kalkbreath]

Local fish stores are kinda like the goose who lays the golden eggs.(hobbyists) Everybody loves golden eggs ....but few can actually create them , so they take them from the golden goose with out ever understanding how important the source really is..
What are you suppose to say when someone stands up and says he wants to kill the goose so he can have all the eggs to himself.
They clearly dont understand where golden eggs come from .
Or have though through their plan.
What happens when the eggs hatch?
Where ya gonna get new eggs?
Who ya gonna play with then?

 

[dizzy]

Jenn,
The thing is we don't live in a perfect world where everyone is always nice and polite. The moderators want to try and create a type of Utopian Society here that simply doesn't exist in the real world. To be honest I think it would be a pretty dull world if everyone was medicated to the point of being nice all the time.
Mitch

 

[sdcfish]

Nice Analogy Kalk.....

Dizzy - Piss off! that wasn't so nice......feel better? LOL

 

[dizzy]

So Eric what do you think about the email Tropical Fish Outlet sent to Jenn. Does that piss you off as well?
Mitch

 

[Kalkbreath]

please post statistics, or a link, to back up your claim-one either showing fewer lfs's in this country than 25 years ago, or an increase in closing rate over 25 years ago.

How about your local market Vitz.
Jeff got out of the retail thing, Newman is out after six months no longer maken waves. .....sure there are other taking their place , but these new stores are all deep pocket toys , they are not ment to make money ...running a fish store is a rich mans hobby just like Race said. They know they cant make money ,its something to blow money on like the horse track.

 

[Anonymous]

Each individual is responsible for what they choose to post. The UAA linked and quoted above makes that pretty clear what we are looking out for. If anyone doesn't like what someone else posts, feel free to talk about it, but don't feel free to talk about it in a way that violates the UAA. Criticize anyone you want, just don't do it in a way that violates the UA or UAA.

I found the post in question to be dancing with the UAA, and since it was the first post of a poster I only edited the part that I thought stepped over the line. If it had been a regular poster, I would have edited the entire post.

RR

 

[JennM]

Each individual is responsible for what they choose to post. The UAA linked and quoted above makes that pretty clear what we are looking out for. If anyone doesn't like what someone else posts, feel free to talk about it, but don't feel free to talk about it in a way that violates the UAA. Criticize anyone you want, just don't do it in a way that violates the UA or UAA.

I found the post in question to be dancing with the UAA, and since it was the first post of a poster I only edited the part that I thought stepped over the line. If it had been a regular poster, I would have edited the entire post.

RR

I'm not questioning your judgment, but IMO that was exactly what the deleted part of the post was doing. Yes, it may have been a bit sarcastic - and perhaps that's why you opted to edit it, but perhaps I just "read" it differently than you did. The quote cited sure does open up the door to a lot of potential commentary. I haven't commented on it because I think it detracted from the subject we *had* been discussing.

Besides, if I did speak my mind on that one, I'd probably get deleted too 'Nuff said.

Jenn

 

[JennM]

Hey Eric - I'm eager to hear your thoughts on TFO's email to me

Something just doesn't add up. Have you not told them about this thread yet? *g*

Jenn