Beaslbob! Now's Your Chance to show your stuff!

[Anonymous]

SHOW ME THE TANK!

 

[Anonymous]

Bob

What are your cradentials for continually proposing this method of reefkeeping? Since it is not the norm you must have done extensive reasearch in closed systems with the proper controls. Of course you must have poled every reefkeeper out and about to prove that plant based filtration is the only method that works. People like Fender, Boreman, etc will back you up since they share your views? Do you have any degree in marine biology or the like that can back up all of your propostions?

Just a hobbiest sharing experiences. Never clained to be anything else.

I do cite a WHO paper where macros bioaccumulated copper in a controlled environment. Unlike the Dr. Ron shimek's study(ies) which are one time shots in uncontrolled environments.

I have seen various organizations which agree with my observations.

I do receive feedback from various other hobbiests on their problems and what works.

I have noticed various fads come an go over the years. Like resins, UGFs, Plenums, DSBs and so on.

But you are correct just a hobbiest who goes home each night and looks at various fw and salt tanks. And has for years.

Probably doesn't mean anything but I do have 10 years in research test and evaluation. 4 years as a test manager. And a MBA. So I do like to think I have some understanding of how to conduct, setup, run, and analyze tests. And the pressures of running a business.

But then just a hobbiest who has ran clear, algae free tanks with no circulation, no water changes in FW for the last 25 years or so. And with some circulation and filtrations FO tanks for 8-10 years or so. And the current reef for the last couple of years. Oh yea I added the oyster shells for that.

But just a hobbiest sharing my experiences.

 

[Anonymous]

I do cite a WHO paper where macros bioaccumulated copper in a controlled environment. Unlike the Dr. Ron shimek's study(ies) which are one time shots in uncontrolled environments.

You continue to cite it even though it has nothing to do with the plants in our aquariums.

I have seen various organizations which agree with my observations.

FW doesn't and cant count. Care to share your experience on other reef boards in regards to your positions?

I have noticed various fads come an go over the years. Like resins, UGFs, Plenums, DSBs and so on.

Why leave algae scrubbers and refugiums off that list? They are as faddy as anything.

Probably doesn't mean anything but I do have 10 years in research test and evaluation. 4 years as a test manager. And a MBA. So I do like to think I have some understanding of how to conduct, setup, run, and analyze tests. And the pressures of running a business.

I do find it hard to believe that you have such understanding. Mainly because of the study you mentioned above.

But then just a hobbiest who has ran clear, algae free tanks with no circulation, no water changes in FW for the last 25 years or so.

Which has nothing to do with reefs.

And with some circulation and filtrations FO tanks for 8-10 years or so.

Which las little to do with reefs.

And the current reef for the last couple of years. Oh yea I added the oyster shells for that.

Care to share all the coral a fish deaths you have experienced in that tank over that period of time?

But just a hobbiest sharing my experiences.

I don't think that is quite accurate. You seem to share the experiences that make your point at the moment, but leave out the ones that don't.

 

[Anonymous]

Bob

What are your cradentials for continually proposing this method of reefkeeping? Since it is not the norm you must have done extensive reasearch in closed systems with the proper controls. Of course you must have poled every reefkeeper out and about to prove that plant based filtration is the only method that works. People like Fender, Boreman, etc will back you up since they share your views? Do you have any degree in marine biology or the like that can back up all of your propostions?

Just a hobbiest sharing experiences. Never clained to be anything else.

I do cite a WHO paper where macros bioaccumulated copper in a controlled environment. Unlike the Dr. Ron shimek's study(ies) which are one time shots in uncontrolled environments.

I have seen various organizations which agree with my observations.

I do receive feedback from various other hobbiests on their problems and what works.

I have noticed various fads come an go over the years. Like resins, UGFs, Plenums, DSBs and so on.

But you are correct just a hobbiest who goes home each night and looks at various fw and salt tanks. And has for years.

Probably doesn't mean anything but I do have 10 years in research test and evaluation. 4 years as a test manager. And a MBA. So I do like to think I have some understanding of how to conduct, setup, run, and analyze tests. And the pressures of running a business.

But then just a hobbiest who has ran clear, algae free tanks with no circulation, no water changes in FW for the last 25 years or so. And with some circulation and filtrations FO tanks for 8-10 years or so. And the current reef for the last couple of years. Oh yea I added the oyster shells for that.

But just a hobbiest sharing my experiences.

So you are not a marine biologist or marine chemist or the like. You have not had recognized persons in the reefkeeping field verify your work? I too am a hobbiest. I do not have th 25 years you have but in my 9 years of keeping tanks with NO plants I have had one algae problem and I know the exact cause. You need to quit presenting yourself as the salvation of the reefkeepers. And I don't need you to spurt you catch phrase to me I'm not a newbie.

 

[Anonymous]

Being as phosphates come from the food we add they will be present regardless of ro/di. skimmers and water changes will not remove all the phosphates or nitrates either.

Neither will plant life. And, you know phosphates come from more that the food we add?

Probably right. But it will remove nitrates and phosphates down to the point where plant life is "starved" to the point where growth is extremly slow.

being as nitrates and phosphates come from food as well as other sources, you can never eliminate phosphates unless you also stop adding food and livestock to the system.

So the only question is how much plant life is needed to lower the nitrates and phosphates to the acceptable levels. more phospates more plant life. more nitrates more plant life.

And 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates from all other sources (water, food etc etc etc) will still produce nutrients for plant life. The bioload of the livestock will produce those. water changes will slow but not prevent the build up of those nutrients. skimmers will not totally eliminate those nutrients.

So the only question is how much plant life is generated and what kind. As Rob has found out. As the green tank owner back on the first page found out.

Bean, other locals, LFS, and I just simply add the plant life we want right at the start. That way my FW and FO run for years with little maintenance. And my 1-2 year old reef with only slightly more.

But if you want to fiddle with all the equipment then fine. As long as you have thriving plant life the system will do fine even with your interference.

 

[Anonymous]

So you are not a marine biologist or marine chemist or the like. You have not had recognized persons in the reefkeeping field verify your work? I too am a hobbiest. I do not have th 25 years you have but in my 9 years of keeping tanks with NO plants I have had one algae problem and I know the exact cause. You need to quit presenting yourself as the salvation of the reefkeepers. And I don't need you to spurt you catch phrase to me I'm not a newbie.

Of course Wazzel, You probably do have tank with no "plants" in them. After all true vascular marine plants are pretty rare. But unless your tanks a completely devoid of all "plant life" including corraline algae and the plant life in corals, then you are useing "my" method.

I don't present myself as the salvation to anyone. Just share my experiences.

 

[Anonymous]

Out of all I posted, this is the only thing you have to comment on?

But it will remove nitrates and phosphates down to the point where plant life is "starved" to the point where growth is extremly slow.

You know there are other items in any reef tank that uptake nitrates and phosphates besides plants?

being as nitrates and phosphates come from food as well as other sources, you can never eliminate phosphates unless you also stop adding food and livestock to the system.

Do you see the problem with that statement?

So the only question is how much plant life is needed to lower the nitrates and phosphates to the acceptable levels. more phospates more plant life. more nitrates more plant life.

That is by far not the only question.

And 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates from all other sources (water, food etc etc etc) will still produce nutrients for plant life. The bioload of the livestock will produce those. water changes will slow but not prevent the build up of those nutrients. skimmers will not totally eliminate those nutrients.

Neither will plant life.

Bean, other locals, LFS, and I just simply add the plant life we want right at the start. That way my FW and FO run for years with little maintenance.

You really need to stop bringing up Fresh Water systems. Really. FO, should prolly be ditched as well.

And my 1-2 year old reef with only slightly more.

And that tank is an eutrophic mess. It looks like the ugly tanks we used to keep in the 80's before we understood what we understand now.

But if you want to fiddle with all the equipment then fine. As long as you have thriving plant life the system will do fine even with your interference.

Bob, your system is hardly doing fine.

 

[Anonymous]

Of course Wazzel, You probably do have tank with no "plants" in them. After all true vascular marine plants are pretty rare. But unless your tanks a completely devoid of all "plant life" including corraline algae and the plant life in corals, then you are useing "my" method.

Make up your mind as to what your method is. Wazzel is not doing anything remotely like your method.

[edit] I am actually shocked you wrote that. If that is true, your method is nothing and no one needs to add any plant life at any time in the life of their system. If the 'plant life' is there no matter what, why should anyone add any?[/edit]

I don't present myself as the salvation to anyone. Just share my experiences.

Yes you do. Reread your posts. You write as both authority and experience.

 

[Bucktronix]

cant we just ban him? this is getting stupid.

 

[Anonymous]

So you are not a marine biologist or marine chemist or the like. You have not had recognized persons in the reefkeeping field verify your work? I too am a hobbiest. I do not have th 25 years you have but in my 9 years of keeping tanks with NO plants I have had one algae problem and I know the exact cause. You need to quit presenting yourself as the salvation of the reefkeepers. And I don't need you to spurt you catch phrase to me I'm not a newbie.

Of course Wazzel, You probably do have tank with no "plants" in them. After all true vascular marine plants are pretty rare. But unless your tanks a completely devoid of all "plant life" including corraline algae and the plant life in corals, then you are useing "my" method.

I don't present myself as the salvation to anyone. Just share my experiences.

Give me a break. One year of keeping a reef tank would hardly make you an expert. If you want to throw FW into the mix I've got 24 years. Again no plants. Persoanlly I am tired of you miss guiding people with your "plant live is all you need" BS. And I do not use on your methods. Plant are not my primary or only methood of filtration. The only "plant life" I have in my tank is coraline algae. In case you forget corals are animals not plant even thou some a phosynthetic.

 

[Anonymous]

But unless your tanks a completely devoid of all "plant life" including corraline algae and the plant life in corals, then you are useing "my" method.

Do you even reed what you right,or do you try to just cunfuses people to the point you win by attrition?

 

[Anonymous]

In case you forget corals are animals not plant even thou some are photosynthetic.

He was referring to Zooxanthellae in the coral tissue, not that Dinoflagellates are plant life either.

Just start a system Beaslbob. You have the tank and you keep saying that your method takes very little time to set up and maintain. With all the time you put into defending your system you could have had a thriving reef up and running and proving us all wrong.

 

[Anonymous]

Do you even reed what you right

Sorry, can't resist... :lol:

 

[Unarce]

cant we just ban him? this is getting stupid.

I'm sure it's been considered before, but I actually think this is a great learning experience for newbies. Teaching them to be mindful of all the advice they receive, whether it comes from a reef forum, LFS, literature, etc.

At some point however, Bob will overstay his welcome at RDO, and will probably get removed like he has from other boards.

 

[Anonymous]

Do you even reed what you right

Sorry, can't resist... :lol:

:wink:

 

[Bucktronix]

cant we just ban him? this is getting stupid.

At some point however, Bob will overstay his welcome at RDO, and will probably get removed like he has from other boards.

im pretty sure that day has come and gone. ive seen to many threads with him telling some noob to just add some plants and throw away their skimmer and all will be fine, followed by some frantic questions until a mod explains that bob is an idiot.

 

[Anonymous]

And a MBA.

Then you should know better than using a disparate result set to reach a conclusion and then passing it on as fact.

Guy
Ph.D. Applied Complexity Theory, University at Buffalo, NY

 

[Anonymous]

But unless your tanks a completely devoid of all "plant life" including corraline algae and the plant life in corals, then you are useing "my" method.

Do you even reed what you right,or do you try to just cunfuses people to the point you win by attrition?

I like the win by attrition part! :lol:

 

[Jolieve]

Okay.. seems that my point has been proven. Bob has no intention of proving his point, because he can't do it. He knows that he's wrong about his method being an accurate way for everyone to set up and maintain a reeftank. He knows that if he sets up a nano using his method, he will only prove himself wrong.

Hence.. this entire thread is moot. Moral of the story? Bob, I like you, you seem like a nice person, but you talk out of your <expletive deleted> too much and don't back it up.

J.

 

[Anonymous]

SHOW ME THE TANK!

I guess there is no mystery tank.

SHOW ME THE TANK!
SHOW ME THE TANK!
SHOW ME THE TANK!
SHOW ME THE TANK!
SHOW ME THE TANK!
SHOW ME THE TANK!
SHOW ME THE TANK!
SHOW ME THE TANK!

If you cant then its your bad.