Beaslbob! Now's Your Chance to show your stuff!

[Anonymous]

You should enter the Nano reef buildoff with your new 20 gallon. Now's your chance to make all of us experienced hobbiests eat our words.

 

[lobo42a]

Yes Beaslbob let's see all that experance at work, I got 40 years in the hobby and am going to show everyone what I can do,so come on join in :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Yes you are absolutely correct. and I wish I could.

Meawhile let's take a look at "my" methods. Which are get the plant life thriving and then let's take look at what happens when that is not followed and when it is.

some pics of a local who is using that idea:

reference: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... genumber=6 (beanpole209's bout 2/3 way down)

refug:

 

[Anonymous]

and a front view of the refug:

 

[Anonymous]

and the display area:

 

[Anonymous]

And a closerup of the disoplay area:

 

[Anonymous]

He has the same amount of copper,chlorine,ammonia,nitrates, phosphates as any tap water in the US. Yet thos things are obviously being handled easily.

meanwhile on this thread : http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthr ... did=152699

the usual methods resulted in:

 

[Anonymous]

And following all the normal recommendations the result was:

 

[Anonymous]

and after the cleanup from that thread:

i just noticed the 3rd dat, its starting to get a greenish tint in the water. oh no, its starting all over again. what should i do? i added phosphate sponge, to remove phosphate. whats next?

Just as happened with the thread here:

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=64161

and just as happend in Cal's tank at first but later corrected as I documented in this thread:
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=60020

 

[Anonymous]

So I may come up with something for the build off. But there is no need to prove methods that are already proven and in use. Especially to Guy with a 900g refugium with plant life and who was using his well water up to about 1/2 a year ago.

Just as 2 of three local fish stores around have already found out. they have added refugiums with macros in the last year.

 

[Anonymous]

I was not using unfiltered well water but you always ignore that fact because it doesn't benefit your stand on advising people to add toxins to their tank. Doesn't matter how many time I mention that my water is filtered.

Guess what... Most of the experienced hobbiests here use tap water... the step you keep ignoring is that they filter it through RO/DI.

Let's see what you got Bob. This is a perfect opportunity for you to place your methods side by side with many other methods. Just imagine the credibility you can achieve.

 

[Anonymous]

Doesn't look like Bean pole is using your method Beaslbob. I see a Heater, some bottles for additives, no crushed oyster shells, perhaps they're hidden.

We need to see you use your methods and document it for us so that when you win we can all change our nasty habbits and get rid of all that detrimental equipment we use.

 

[Anonymous]

the pictures above are all the credibility I need.

 

[Anonymous]

But the pictures above are from a tank that doesn't use your methods :?

 

[Anonymous]

Doesn't look like Bean pole is using your method Beaslbob. I see a Heater, some bottles for additives, no crushed oyster shells, perhaps they're hidden.

We need to see you use your methods and document it for us so that when you win we can all change our nasty habbits and get rid of all that detrimental equipment we use.

"My" method as stated above is to simply get the plant life thriving as the first thing and then do the rest. Everything else is secondary.

Bean's using two part additives and risking his system through a stuck heater does not mean he is not using "my" method. All it does is show that additives and heater can be used with success.

Then you have me not dosing not using a heater but having thriving plant life.

We have you doing water changes, skimming, ro/di (before with treated well water) and a large refugium with plant life.

bean with starting with a refug, dosing, heater, no water changes, untreated tap.

and another local in the thread above using NO's and macros in the display.

All of those with thriving fish and corals and no nusiuance algae problems.

And Cal's Fw tank plus my planted tanks. thriving for years and years with no algae problems, no water changes, no filtration, no circulation.


and we have that green water tank above and rob's algae problem. Both returning after extenisve cleanaup efforts without adding plant life.

the only common thread is the addition of the plant life.

thriving plant life in awesome systems.

no added plant life green water and algae problems.

So all this demonstrates is that any closed aquatic system generates nutrients from the bioload. And adding plant life and keeping it thriving results in stable, easy to maintain, awesome systems.

Everything else is secondary.

 

[Anonymous]

beaslbob,

i don't understand your point.

in the link to saltwaterfish.com the tank in question probably goes algae crazy because the guy is using unfiltered tapwater in LA.
so, he then breaks it down and rebuilds to take a pic of it a week later with a mangrove sprout in it and you are posting it as evidence that plant life is fixing his problem? or that problems that persist are a result of not enough plant life?
then you link some RDO members tanks that are completely different in composition... none of it makes sense.

you say this guy on RC, Beanpole, uses "your" methods and yet i did a search on him and found no evidence that he advises against skimmers, just that he doesn't use one which isn't really news to anyone. people have always done this.
he doesn't tell people to use unfiltered tap water as you do and i see nowhere that he states he doesn't change out water.
if you change out enough water and you don't need a skimmer or a refugium :wink:

also regarding this beanpole tank that you cite as evidence... the corals he is keeping are very forgiving in regards to water quality. i am not surprised in the least that he can keep zooanthids and discosoma. corallamorphs are tough as nails.

 

[Anonymous]

"My" method as stated above is to simply get the plant life thriving as the first thing and then do the rest.

I totally misunderstood your "Method". All this time your method is simply to use an algae scrubber. I do apologise Beaslbob, I believe Algae Scrubbers can be a benefit to saltwater aquariums. I totally misunderstood the point you have been making all this time. We both agree that Algae scrubbers can be beneficial.

I do not agree with you that Plant life is typically beneficial though. Other than Mangrove trees I don't know of any other plant that I consider beneficial and Mangroves are questionable in my mind. I'd suggest sticking to algae and skip the plants. Some can look nice but they are not nearly as easy to care for as an algae like Chaetomorpha. Most marine plants require nutrient rich substrate and that is a big problem for reef tanks.

If the algae thing is your only platform then what's all the crap you keep pushing against skimmers, purified water, water changes, heaters, good lighting, good waterflow, live rock, etc. etc.?

 

[Len]

My issue with beaslbob's opinions isn't with the fact he uses macroalgae filtration (it's all been done before decades before him), but rather he persistently discourages the use of skimmers, ro/di, and other "high tech" equipment. The biggest concern I have is he pushes a method that is lasse faire (seemingly for the sake of convenience and cost cutting), and this lazy, cheap approach is probably very attractive to new reefkeepers (but certainly not something I would recommend based on my first person experience).

 

[Anonymous]

Encouraging macroalgae growth in your refugium is like encouraging skimmate in your skimmer. Both are simply a byproduct of excess nutrients. In a perfect world, you wouldn't have any skimmate produced and macroalgae would barely grow, if at all. So boasting that you have thriving plant life sounds kind of out of whack with what we're trying to accomplish in (most) aquariums--rapid coral growth and very low nutrient levels. There's a reason you don't usually find massive growths of macroalgae AND coral side by side on wild reefs.

 

[Anonymous]

beaslbob,

i don't understand your point.

in the link to saltwaterfish.com the tank in question probably goes algae crazy because the guy is using unfiltered tapwater in LA.

The reason he has algae is simply he has nutrients in the water that is not being consumed by other plant life. By simply establishing plant life when is started the system ammonia, nitrates, and phosphates would be undetectable in a week. and the micro algae turning his water green would never have sufficient nutrients to be noticable let alone completely cloud up the water.

so, he then breaks it down and rebuilds to take a pic of it a week later with a mangrove sprout in it and you are posting it as evidence that plant life is fixing his problem? or that problems that persist are a result of not enough plant life?

I had not noticed the mangrove sprout. the point was that after all that work, three days later the water is already starting to turn green again. The original green water, the teardown, and the green returning would not have happened it he has simply established the plant life from the start. Now he is justifiably confused and fustrated.

then you link some RDO members tanks that are completely different in composition... none of it makes sense.

It does when the problems of algae returning are common. As is not establishing plant life. then it makes total sense.

you say this guy on RC, Beanpole, uses "your" methods and yet i did a search on him and found no evidence that he advises against skimmers, just that he doesn't use one which isn't really news to anyone. people have always done this.
he doesn't tell people to use unfiltered tap water as you do and i see nowhere that he states he doesn't change out water.

I chat with him each month and exchange posts at a local forum. He stumbled across the no water changes some time ago when he was away from his tank and busy. He was dumbfounded how is parameters didn't change. Now he is convinced.

if you change out enough water and you don't need a skimmer or a refugium :wink:

You are correct. If you run an open system constantly pumping sea water to the tank and back to the see then you don't need much of anything else. Anything less then a 100% waterchange will not maintain say nitrates at 0.0 or any other parameter at optimum values. Water change do slow but not correct trends. To get consistant optimum values you need the system itself helping out. With nitrates having plant life consume those nitrates. And when the system is maintaining those parameters then water changes are not only unecessary but probably detrimental. And provide the hobbiest an opportunity to screw something up.

also regarding this beanpole tank that you cite as evidence... the corals he is keeping are very forgiving in regards to water quality. i am not surprised in the least that he can keep zooanthids and discosoma. corallamorphs are tough as nails.

so? I'll still take his 3 month old tank over the green machine above.