Beaslbob! Now's Your Chance to show your stuff!

[Bucktronix]

Whatta tank! I can never get tired of visiting your page Len.

i agree your tank rocks len.

 

[joekr]

I am currently working through Anthony Calfo's book of coral propagation and must say that Bob and Anthony would probably have a brawl in a parking lot if they ever met to compare theories.

Bob, I used to read your posts at another board and just shake my head. I would like to see a picture of your tank. I've gone back through this post and don't see a link or a picture, but maybe I missed it.

Can we see a pic?

 

[Anonymous]

Bean - Not to sound rude but your only posts here on RDO are these. Are you bob in disguise?

We would like to see proof that this system works more than a few months. Every post about algae had bob saying, "Well is you established Plant Life form day 1 this wouldn't happen" - BS. Poor husbandry is the cause. Poor husbandry = lack of maintenance = excess nutriets = algae blooms.

HIs point about making a tank that requires less maintenance is a GREAT idea but what he preches is a little odd.

Do you do oil changes in you cars engines? Probably not they work off some other material that doesn't require changes.

We have all heard about Atlantis too but there is no proof.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Matthew,

I definitely do not condone or encourage the personal nature of some of the replies, but I think the arguments against Bob's opinions is very well grounded in science and cumulative experiences. His ideas are simply unsound, and IMO quite dangerous advice to new reefkeepers. <<snip for space>>

presented as an example of the above statement...

I don't see any need to dechlorinate the water. But then I always have aquatic plant life also.

Also, bob's mention of his betta fish and peace lillies are probably this:

Which bears little resemblance to

 

[Anonymous]

Complete apples and oranges, Len. What an awesome tank.... you deserve the right to brag. I want to learn YOUR method...no one else's.

'Nuf said.

~wings~

 

[Jolieve]

I have always told everyone that asks, that my tank wants to grow up to be as cool as len's.

J.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I agree Lens tank is the SH*T!

 

[Anonymous]

Len - Where are the plants?

 

[Anonymous]

I am currently working through Anthony Calfo's book of coral propagation and must say that Bob and Anthony would probably have a brawl in a parking lot if they ever met to compare theories.

Bob, I used to read your posts at another board and just shake my head. I would like to see a picture of your tank. I've gone back through this post and don't see a link or a picture, but maybe I missed it.

Can we see a pic?

I don't think so. I exchanged emails with him when I ordered his book.

And he gave me this answer to me when I asked Wetwebmedia if plant life filters out copper:

From: WWM FAQ Crew [[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: heavy metals and macros


Heavy metals and macroalgae 11/15/03
Bob (or whoever answers this)
<Anthony Calfo in your service>
First, I really, really like your web site. Great resource and I refer to it all the time.
<thanks kindly... do tell a friend>
to make the question short. Does macro algae and other marine plants filter out (absorbe, export or whatever)heavy metals?
<yes... heavily in some cases. Not uncommon though among plants and algae. You may recall industry using various planst (Hyacith) for doing the same. And what of the role of bog plants in wetlands and aquatic ecosystems? Huge role>
I especially like your pages on marine plants and thought they mentioned that marine plants also do some filtering out of heavy metals. If I missed that page could you provide me a link?
<I am not aware of that specific page... do simply use the google search tool from our home page wetwebmedia.com to toggle and seek your desired subjects please>
The reason I am asking is that I am constantly chatting with other saltwater keepers who just don't seem to get the importance of naturally balancing out the ecosystem using plants. Sure you need to look at the entire system but to me the single most important thing is to establish a thriving plant growth and then do the rest.
Bob Beasley
<indeed... and the most underated of all perhaps, turf algae>
PS can you tell i am an old freshwater natural tank guy? LOL. My current 10g fresh has 30 guppies 5 platties, sand, plants and light. no circulation of any kind not even an air stone. All I do is replace evaporative water and feed the fish. Been up two years no and all fish grew up from the original 2 guppies and 2 platties. I kept one tank like that for six continous years. And a small salt for 6 years also. But I didn't know about macros and plants for salt.
<do peek at our coverage of marine plants in algae in our new book too if you get a chance ("Reef Invertebrates")... its the most comprehensive in the industry to date. kind regards, Anthony>

Anthony and I would have a very interesting and cordial chat. Just as bean and the other locals here and I do. Even those members with DBS, ro/di, expensive lighting and so on. It is a lot different eyeball to eyeball then on message boards.

I am absolutely sure that Anthony's methods are great for coral farming. Just as I am absolutely sure that a home reef tank does not need to implement every one of those procedures.

And just for the record, Bean is a local club member not me under another user name. His above comments were not prompted or edited or approved by me. I did ask his premission to use the pictures at the start of this thread is all.

And I am not suprised at all by his comments. They are typical of newbie feedback I have had over the last couple of years.

 

[Anonymous]

>..Len - Where are the plants?

Photosynethetic corals have algae in them.

 

[RobertoVespucci]

beas . . . can you copy/paste the headers?

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome to RDO, beanpole!

>...First I would tell a newb all about this and give them the choice and make there own informed mind

That is a very reasonable, and I am sure everyone will agree with you.

>...Second my tank is only more proof that theese methods work Im shure I just lied and all of my pictures are made up psp creations!!!

There are many shades of "proofs," (sorry for the lawyerspeak). The issue is that you can't take any single advice from PLB without caveat, and he usually leave out the caveat. This is problematic for newbies to try PLB "MyMethod" without some of the important backgrounds. This is the microscopic problem of PLB. Another issue is that it is highly unlikely for newbies to be successful in reefkeeping if he/she follows PLB advice in its entire scope. This is the macroscopic problem. I don't recall any example that PLB gave follows his "MyMethod" nor do yours. You can't say that this is what I do, and its is proof of PLB method.

>...Third filtering water with ro/di filtration is not required in my opinion but if you chose to use it would be fine I will never use it because I see no need for it and have not had any problems in my 7 some odd years of in saltwater tank experience

I don't think anyone says RO/DI is a must for reefkeeping, but it is just plain dangerous to advice people to use tap water without know the quality of the water people will be using.

>...fourth the pictures you have of bobs tank are out dated and taken under bad lighting for pictures so those pictures are sortof a mute point also there is nothing rong with the livestock in those pictures exept you cant hardley see anything and my pics are nothing to boast about I have a really crappy camera and Im not verry good at taking pictures .

Photographer and golfer alike usually only blames on the equipement they use, but I feel you are more honest by mentioning your picture taking skill. However, keep in mind that lighting, camera, and photographic skill can only help you to some extent. Giving unlimited budget, I don't think any professional photographer can make a Egyptian mummy into someone/something you want to go to bed with.

>...I think end the end most people are capable of making an informed decision I think they can see the piont Im making here that its possible to have a reef tank for much cheaper and much less and have less work to do or they can be main stream and probubley have a good reef tank as well but for people to flame us like this is barbaric there is no reason to say it cant work or to say our tanks look bad just to make yourselfs feel better

I am sure many of us agree with yoo on this. Reefkeeping is not about how much money one spend, or how niffy the equipement you have. It is a hobby that meant to be enjoyed. However, it is different when somebody just give out information that can be detrimental to people who lack the background.

 

[Anonymous]

beas . . . can you copy/paste the headers?

the above is the entire email as I saved to a txt file. If you need more you could pm me.

 

[Len]

My tank actually began to decline with Hamileda and Caulerpa starting to take hold (I have no idea how they got into my tank, but it's not a big surprise either). But I am not rationally going to jump to the conclusion that "plantlife" caused harm to my tank.

Hey Bob, I'll enter a Buildoff tank if you will (and I won't even be eligable for a prize). I'm concentrating on my new "big" tank but I wouldn't mind having an excuse to start a nano too

 

[RobertoVespucci]

Nah, I'm not really interested. Headers are harder to spoof if you're not familiar with them. I was just curious to see if you'd post something. Would be an easy way to demonstrate the origin of that email. While I'm suspicious, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Anonymous]

First I would tell a newb all about this and give them the choice and make there own informed mind

That is one of the reasons Bob is still posting here.

Second my tank is only more proof that theese methods work Im shure I just lied and all of my pictures are made up psp creations!!!

How old is your tank? Whats up with that open brain in your tank?
I don't think anyone on RDO has said that these 'methods' can't work, especially in a tank like yours with a very low bio load of very hardy animals.

Third filtering water with ro/di filtration is not required in my opinion but if you chose to use it would be fine I will never use it because I see no need for it and have not had any problems in my 7 some odd years of in saltwater tank experience

I don't think anyone has argued that RODI is required. Recommended, yes.
As I have mentioned in previous threads like this, I have a coral farmer friend in my area that uses straight tap water. However, his TDS coming out of the tap is 30, and there is no copper piping in his place. I still wouldn't recommend the practice to newbies because they already have so much to deal with that can be problematic.

fourth the pictures you have of bobs tank are out dated and taken under bad lighting for pictures so those pictures are sortof a mute point also there is nothing rong with the livestock in those pictures exept you cant hardley see anything and my pics are nothing to boast about I have a really crappy camera and Im not verry good at taking pictures .

When they werent out of date, Bob was still making the same points. The corals in those pictures don't look healthy. It isn't the camera - Bobs tank just doesn't look like something most people want.

I think end the end most people are capable of making an informed decision I think they can see the piont Im making here that its possible to have a reef tank for much cheaper and much less and have less work to do or they can be main stream and probubley have a good reef tank as well but for people to flame us like this is barbaric there is no reason to say it cant work or to say our tanks look bad just to make yourselfs feel better

No one has said it can't work. Where these discussions with bob get weird is when he gives examples of his method that don't use his method, when he uses flawed science speak to support his ideas, when he uses freshwater tanks as support for his ideas, when he advises that adding water with copper in it is no problem, and when he says anything but his method is unsound.

 

[Anonymous]

From: WWM FAQ Crew [[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 2:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: heavy metals and macros


Heavy metals and macroalgae 11/15/03
Bob (or whoever answers this)
<Anthony Calfo in your service>
First, I really, really like your web site. Great resource and I refer to it all the time.
<thanks kindly... do tell a friend>
to make the question short. Does macro algae and other marine plants filter out (absorbe, export or whatever)heavy metals?
<yes... heavily in some cases. Not uncommon though among plants and algae. You may recall industry using various planst (Hyacith) for doing the same. And what of the role of bog plants in wetlands and aquatic ecosystems? Huge role>
I especially like your pages on marine plants and thought they mentioned that marine plants also do some filtering out of heavy metals. If I missed that page could you provide me a link?
<I am not aware of that specific page... do simply use the google search tool from our home page wetwebmedia.com to toggle and seek your desired subjects please>
The reason I am asking is that I am constantly chatting with other saltwater keepers who just don't seem to get the importance of naturally balancing out the ecosystem using plants. Sure you need to look at the entire system but to me the single most important thing is to establish a thriving plant growth and then do the rest.
Bob Beasley
<indeed... and the most underated of all perhaps, turf algae>
PS can you tell i am an old freshwater natural tank guy? LOL. My current 10g fresh has 30 guppies 5 platties, sand, plants and light. no circulation of any kind not even an air stone. All I do is replace evaporative water and feed the fish. Been up two years no and all fish grew up from the original 2 guppies and 2 platties. I kept one tank like that for six continous years. And a small salt for 6 years also. But I didn't know about macros and plants for salt.
<do peek at our coverage of marine plants in algae in our new book too if you get a chance ("Reef Invertebrates")... its the most comprehensive in the industry to date. kind regards, Anthony>

None of that is anything that we would argue against, nor have we. Its your next steps that are problematic, and from talking with Anthony, he would agree.

You know Anthony recommends O3 for any reef tank? That he thinks skimmers are ''unequivocally' necessary? That waters movement is 'one of the single most important factors in the culture and propagation of reef corals'? That 'intelligent consideration of the facts of the matter should lead one to the conclusion that purification and reconstitution of fresh water is necessary for use in marine systems. It is crucial that aquarists engaged in the propagation of coral use water of known and consistent quality which begins with purified water in most areas.. Aquarists successfully using mains/tap water or spring;/well may passionately promote use of the same to other aquarists. However, even with access to a know and safe supply, it must be acknowledged that public water supplies and, especially, natural sources such as springs and wells are at least seasonally vulnerable to changes in water quality'?

 

[Anonymous]

...
When they werent out of date, Bob was reporting that he was losing animals.

...

No. Have I lost animals. sure. 90% of the losses were before the plant life took hold. I have fish and corals that have thrived in the tank for over two years now. Macros were added at about that point.

Your statement is a misrepresentation of facts which misleads people.

Simply put the addition of macros is what have kept my fish and corals alive. Just as numerous newbies have reported back to me after they the exact same experiences.

 

[Len]

Bob, can you post some current pictures of your aquarium?

 

[Anonymous]

...
When they werent out of date, Bob was reporting that he was losing animals.

...

No. Have I lost animals. sure. 90% of the losses were before the plant life took hold. I have fish and corals that have thrived in the tank for over two years now. Macros were added at about that point.

Your statement is a misrepresentation of facts which misleads people.

Simply put the addition of macros is what have kept my fish and corals alive. Just as numerous newbies have reported back to me after they the exact same experiences.

How can you say that when you admit to 10% loss since you added plant life? How can you advocate plant life first when you have never done it?

I retract that statement, and will remove it from my post. Not because I think it is wrong but because this is a typical side track of Bobs. Perhaps with it gone Bob will address the other points I raised. I doubt he will, but hope is free.