Inland Reef / Reefs.org Salt Analysis Project

[Anonymous]

Which salt brands are going to be included in the first batch of testing? Has a final testing protocol been determined?

Sounds like to me, we need to be a little more patient.

Thank you for understanding

They thank you for your patience and understanding.

Your patience is appreciated.

Is the message not getting through? John when Matt and I are not working 15 hour days - we'll address your concerns. I don't know how we can be more clear.

 

[JohnL]

Hey, you're the one who promised some group consensus and a weekly update. Sorry for annoying you with my interest in and support of your project.

 

[JerseyReef]

Tom and Matt - I'll be honest. There is no cause for you to talk like this to JohnL or any other member who inquires on the status of this project. This study has the potential to rethink the way we look at this hobby and those provide ASW to this hobby. JohnL and many others (to quote from a previous post) "are more than anxious to get started on this project".

While I understand that your store is taking up practically all of your waking hours right now. However, it still doesn't give you the right snap at a fellow hobbyist for asking a basic question. Even if it's been asked several times, with no real definitive answer.

 

[Anonymous]

JersyReef - believe me we are just as anxious to get started on the project - we are just quite tired of repeating ourselves. We have been giving updates - John asked for more, and has asked for more and more and more. It's getting old. Nothing major has changed since Inland or RDO staff has posted updates. If there was something to discuss we would surely be discussing it - but at this time there is nothing to discuss- John and everyone else's input is appreciated and requested however asking the same question over and over when we've pointed out that we don't have time to discuss details at the moment doesn't help one bit. I only posted an update because I was asked to by the RDO staff because they are getting bombarded by emails as well. I though my update was pretty clear - apparently not clear enough of which I'm sorry.

 

[JohnL]

I only posted an update because I was asked to by the RDO staff because they are getting bombarded by emails as well.

So I'm not the only one who is concerned about the lack of weekly updates as promised :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

John if there was something to report on - we would report it, it would be nice if there was enough money coming in from donations that it would be worth my time to post updated figures.

However we've said that there is little/no money coming in from donations currently - the collected amount hasn't changed - RDO is arranging for an auction/raffle which has already been said in this forum.

Again I will ask for patience until we finish our move. If anything major occurs we will be sure to let everyone know - however from the outset we said this will be a long drawn out process lasting many months - we want to get started just as much as everyone else.

 

[MattM]

John -

We promised weekly updates on the status of donations. As Tom said "the initial flurry of donations has died down," so there is not much to report there.

As far as the test protocol, I have an outline, and will post the latest version sometime in the next 2 weeks or so. With all the work on the new store, I am only online from about 1 to 2 AM.

 

[JohnL]

That's cool. Good luck with the new store

 

[ChrisRD]

Matt/Tom:

How much NSW would constitute a useful sample?

I have approximately 1 liter of NSW from a healthy fringing reef near Point Udall, St. Croix (Eastern part of the island, Northern shore). The sample was collected in two clean spring water bottles a little more than a week ago and has been in refrigeration since it was collected.

Let me know if this would be useful and I can get it to you at the new store on my next trip out to NH.

-Chris

 

[MattM]

Chris -

We appreciate the offer, but we will be using a published professional analyses for our NSW comparison. We will include an NSW sample with each test batch, but that is only as a test control.

Also, as you will see when we post the current protocol, there are unusually high standards of cleanliness that we will have to adhere to in all steps of the procedure, so "two clean spring water bottles" won't cut it.

Thanks anyway!

 

[ChrisRD]

so "two clean spring water bottles" won't cut it.

Picky, picky...

LOL - sorta figured I'd get that response...

...just thought I'd ask.

 

[Anonymous]

Are you guys testing for EDTA also?

 

[MattM]

The ICPMS test is an elemental analysis, so a complex molecule like EDTA (ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid) would only be measured by its component elements.

EDTA is a sequestrant normally added to foods in order to bind metals such as copper, iron and nickel, which can degrade the food by catalyzing the oxidation of fats.

It really has no business in a salt mix, which is not to say that no one adds it, just that they probably shouldn't. To be honest, I don't know if EDTA is present in any salt mix, although I would guess that it's use is not widespread if it is used at all.

 

[Anonymous]

Tom and Matt - I'll be honest. There is no cause for you to talk like this to JohnL or any other member who inquires on the status of this project. This study has the potential to rethink the way we look at this hobby and those provide ASW to this hobby. JohnL and many others (to quote from a previous post) "are more than anxious to get started on this project".

While I understand that your store is taking up practically all of your waking hours right now. However, it still doesn't give you the right snap at a fellow hobbyist for asking a basic question. Even if it's been asked several times, with no real definitive answer.

JohnL wrote:

Hey, you're the one who promised some group consensus and a weekly update. Sorry for annoying you with my interest in and support of your project.

So I'm not the only one who is concerned about the lack of weekly updates as promised

James, can you give us some kind of time frame?

Matt, can you post your current plans along with a rough timeline?

Cool, at least I'm not the only one

How did we do this week?

Matt, is there any chance of getting a weekly update this week?

and this was only from the last two or so pages in the thread-after repeated explanations as to why things were taking the time they were

mebbe it's just me, but there's a point at which interest and concern start to get percieved as kvetching and nudging - especially when rolling eyes are used as the 'point maker' i find it to be not that constructive a method of expressing concern and interest- and one post makes the point-why keep harping on it? :wink:


:roll:

 

[Anonymous]

The ICPMS test is an elemental analysis, so a complex molecule like EDTA (ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid) would only be measured by its component elements.

EDTA is a sequestrant normally added to foods in order to bind metals such as copper, iron and nickel, which can degrade the food by catalyzing the oxidation of fats.

It really has no business in a salt mix, which is not to say that no one adds it, just that they probably shouldn't. To be honest, I don't know if EDTA is present in any salt mix, although I would guess that it's use is not widespread if it is used at all.

There are salt mixes that use EDTA. Crystal sea marine mix(not bioassay) uses EDTA as a dechlorinator. IO says they used to use it and dont use it anymore. EDTA may(just may) be a cause of bleaching. I think its a good idea to test for it. If IO test positive, there will be some explaining to do. :twisted: . Have a nice day guys. Right now i am doing my own little test with bioassay.

 

[Anonymous]

There are salt mixes that use EDTA. Crystal sea marine mix(not bioassay) uses EDTA as a dechlorinator. IO says they used to use it and dont use it anymore. EDTA may(just may) be a cause of bleaching. I think its a good idea to test for it. If IO test positive, there will be some explaining to do.

Well the planned initial tests cannot measure edta so that will have to be something separate, but it's surely worth further discussion. However if I'm not mistaken the Bio-assay version of Crystal Sea was also having problems with bleaching hence I wouldn't be so quick to pull the trigger on EDTA alone. MANY additives/supplements in this hobby contain EDTA as a preservative.

Vitz: I think the points on both sides were made lets not restart the pissing match :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

heh-sorry

 

[MattM]

There are salt mixes that use EDTA.... I think its a good idea to test for it...

I did some quick searches on EDTA tests. Tough issue...

EDTA is used in tons of tests. There is a calcium titration test that uses EDTA, it is dosed to children to chelate the lead in their system in testing for lead toxicity, it is added to blood in a number of different medical tests, etc.

There is tons of information out there on EDTA's use in testing and not a single word I can find about testing for EDTA!

Need more info.

 

[JerseyReef]

Tom and Matt - I'll be honest. There is no cause for you to talk like this to JohnL or any other member who inquires on the status of this project. This study has the potential to rethink the way we look at this hobby and those provide ASW to this hobby. JohnL and many others (to quote from a previous post) "are more than anxious to get started on this project".

While I understand that your store is taking up practically all of your waking hours right now. However, it still doesn't give you the right snap at a fellow hobbyist for asking a basic question. Even if it's been asked several times, with no real definitive answer.

JohnL wrote:

Hey, you're the one who promised some group consensus and a weekly update. Sorry for annoying you with my interest in and support of your project.

So I'm not the only one who is concerned about the lack of weekly updates as promised

James, can you give us some kind of time frame?

Matt, can you post your current plans along with a rough timeline?

Cool, at least I'm not the only one

How did we do this week?

Matt, is there any chance of getting a weekly update this week?

and this was only from the last two or so pages in the thread-after repeated explanations as to why things were taking the time they were

mebbe it's just me, but there's a point at which interest and concern start to get percieved as kvetching and nudging - especially when rolling eyes are used as the 'point maker' i find it to be not that constructive a method of expressing concern and interest- and one post makes the point-why keep harping on it? :wink:


:roll:

Vitz - No need to roll me up into your post. It's unwarranted and unappreciated. My post had nothing to do with the lack of updates or progress on the study, it had to do with the way some hobbyists are being treated when asked for a status update. Who cares if John asked once or ten times. It was a valid question, replied with an inappropriate response. Let's not dreg up or open old wounds. Let's move on, okay?

"Off Soapbox"

 

[JohnL]

Can we get a weekly update this week?



I'm kidding, I'm kidding 8) How is the move going?