Inland Reef / Reefs.org Salt Analysis Project

[JohnL]

I think Len may have deleted a few posts without Chucker's knowledge 8O

 

[Len]

Sorry. I wasn't following this thread like I should be until someone mentioned to me just now. I removed one post 7/19/03 at the user's request about 10 minutes after the member had posted it. I can not account for the other deleted message and would ask that you verify it is not a duplicate. Reefs.org will not remove posts without either being requested by the user or unless the post is in gross violation of the registration agreement. My apologies for the confusion.

 

[EmilyB]

Yes, that is correct. Len removed my message at my request.

I was just acting like a mad cow.... :lol: Sorry !

 

[jamesw]

I think it's probably a plot to steal your bodily fluids Dr. Strangelove, watch out!

I had a great talk with MattM owner of Inland Reef yesterday. While I was talking to Matt I could hear hammering and sawing in the background...

I am confident that the study will move forward. Inland Reef has received a generous amount of donations so far - it looks like they will be able to do a lot of testing.

A study of this magnitude and budget doesn't just happen overnight though - although we understand that hobbyists would like the data ASAP. Along those lines, I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone that this is the Inland Reef Salt Study and they are managing it and collecting the funds. As folks will remember if they have been following reefs.org for a while, Inland Reef has already done two smaller similar studies for Combisan and Miracle Mud.

We are helping Inland Reef to raise the money, and also offering advice from some of our experts about sample preparation, and testing protocol, etc.

Sincerely,
James Wiseman

 

[wasabi]

great post.. good enough for me.. that took away my inate desire to continue on with my investigation

 

[samw]

I was just acting like a mad cow.... :lol: Sorry !

A mad cow who happens to be from Alberta, Canada. LOL. Watch it, you might get banned. Well, I'm looking foward to the start of this project. I'm switching back to IO for now until I see some more research.

 

[golfish]

It kind of seems like this project has fizzled out...it was real easy for me to donate............is it going to be as easy to get my money back?

 

[MattM]

It kind of seems like this project has fizzled out...it was real easy for me to donate............is it going to be as easy to get my money back?

No, it hasn't fizzled out. We are still involved in arguments/discussions with the City of Nashua to get our certificate of occupancy for the new store - details can be found here. Until that is finished and we are open in the new store, we can't really devote time to this.

As always, this was planned as a long term project - spanning many months to a year, once it got started - we need that time to ensure getting mutiple lots from the salt manufacturers. So patience is key.

If it comes to the point that we can not proceed for some reason, then no one will have any trouble getting their money back. As I said somewhere back in this incredibly long thread, either as cash or store credit - your choice. But we're not there yet!

 

[golfish]

Matt,
Your way past being "there".........I didn't see anything about "arguments/discussions" in your first thread. No credit for me please, just return my money.

Thanks

 

[MattM]

You have a PM.

 

[bowfront]

Matt,
Your way past being "there".........I didn't see anything about "arguments/discussions" in your first thread. No credit for me please, just return my money.

Thanks

Give it some more time for "arguments/discussions" This sounds like something at work. Hey when you start something be ready to finish it regardless of personal problems.

 

[Anemone]

Hey when you start something be ready to finish it regardless of personal problems.

Well, this is exactly the point a few folks have tried to make.

About now, more than a few folks will be thinking this is a RDO versus RC hack, but it's not.

When this project began, it was billed as a "right now" type of project: give us money and we will test the salts we all want tested.

Then the "difficulties" began to manifest themselves - the desire to "do it right," and perhaps the realization that the planning necessary to avoid an internet thrashing was a bit more than had been anticipated.

Enter a store move and remodel (certainly falling within the realm of "personal problems" for most people), and the apparent indefinite postponement of the study.

People ask for updates, and are told they are impatient, or referred to a "seagull." Not the best recipe for inspiring confidence.

The major participants all have quite a bit at stake - Inland Reef (for offering to do the study), RDO (for ramrodding the study), and RC (for soliciting contributions from its members and providing the largest chunk of the money to fund the study to date) are fighting a credibility battle here. And in the process, this fiasco may well be making it more difficult to collect donations for legitimate future studies......

IMO, and it's my opinion only - no organizational affiliation, it's time to either begin the study, or give a realistic timeline for beginning it. In other words, it's time to defecate or vacate the lavatory.....

FWIW,
Kevin

 

[Anonymous]

Remember, Inland is doing this voluntarily. I think you guys should give them some slack. I don't hear anyone else offering to do this study for free.

Patience folks. The study will be well worth it end the end.

Louey

 

[Anemone]

Remember, Inland is doing this voluntarily. I think you guys should give them some slack. I don't hear anyone else offering to do this study for free.

Louey,

I understand and (believe it or not) appreciate the fact that Inland volunteered once again to do something that is of interest to hobbyists. I would really like to see this study done. However, there have been more than a few timelines given throughout this extremely long thread:

We'll start getting the first set of samples together and we'll be talking to the salt manufacturers at the trade show on April 11-13.

We'll post the totals here on a weekly basis. To Start we currently are at $280 for the past 24 hours.

In order to get different lot numbers on the salt samples, it will take many months before we can start testing. We expect that by that time, the funding will be all lined up. (posted in mid-March)

I think we will begin acquiring salts next week. (posted in mid-March)

As far as a timeline, there are two factors:

1) We are knee-deep in moving the store right now. Nothing will happen until after that is done. We are planning on 1 May, but that could slip a bit with construction delays.

2) When we start is also, to some extent, determined by the finances. There are currently plans for auctions and/or raffles to raise money, it would be premature to create a schedule while these activities are still in the planning stages

Matt and Tom have been working 7 days a week 12+ hrs a day trying to get moved to their new location. Rest assured that they are 100% behind this project and "are more than anxious to get started on this project" (their words exactly). They are very busy with the move and will discuss things further when they finally come up for air. They are trying to open their doors at the new store sometime in the next 7-10 days and thus are really under the gun to get things finished. (plea for patience from 4/25/03)

General Update: Reefs.org has successfully procured several very popular products (from large aquarium setups to skimmers!) from leading manufacturers and vendors that will go a long way in funding Inland's Salt Study. We plan on auctioning and raffling these items to our members in a few short weeks, and will keep you all updated when the auction/raffle system is implemented. (posted 5/1/03)

We plan on sending off the first batch of salts to the lab soon after we finish the major construction here at the new store - probably 30 days from now. (posted 5/15/03)

As far as the test protocol, I have an outline, and will post the latest version sometime in the next 2 weeks or so. With all the work on the new store, I am only online from about 1 to 2 AM. (posted 5/15/03)

We're about a week to 10 days from getting the new store finished. Been working 15 hour days on the final painting and store fixtures.

After we're open in the new location, we'll turn our attention to this project once again. (posted 6/15/03)

- and every one has come and gone without any action, so I think more than enough "slack" has been given.

As for doing it for "free," I know what you're trying to say, but when they started soliciting donations, it was no longer done "for free," and that's when accountability to all the donors becomes an issue.

Patience folks. The study will be well worth it end the end.

I am truly hoping this will be so, but I am more than a little frustrated.

Kevin

 

[Ninong]

Wow! I came over here looking to see if the test results were back yet and I find out that nothing has been started yet. Oh, well...

Hope the new store will be finished soon and wish you the best of success with it. I guess people are getting impatient because they were led to believe the store was about to open back in April and the salt testing was about to begin. Looks like that estimate was a bit off.

I would hate to see the salt project abandoned and hope that it can proceed within the next few weeks but I would like to suggest that the proposed list of salt mixes be reduced to perhaps no more than 10 different brands. For example, why test all three mixes from Aquacraft? Why not test just their premium mix? Unless, of course, Aquacraft wants to pay for the testing of the additional products.

I realize there will be those who might even want to add additional brands to the list but I was just trying to suggest a way to get things rolling without having to wait for major additional fund raising events that may be more difficult to pull off at this point.

I must confess, I would love to know the differences (if any) between all of the salts that seem to be coming out of Mentor, OH lately. And it would be interesting to find out what secret time released chelators are being used in a certain brand. And let's not forget the advertising claim "No Phosphates -- Never had, never will" made by one "popular brand" in spite of the fact that they once listed 1.3 ppm PO4 in their own analysis of the same salt.

Would it be possible to verify the connection, if any, between Reef Crystals, Instant Ocean, Kent, Omega and Aqua Medic? If it turns out that there is some connection between these different brands -- besides the obvious one between Reef Crystals and Instant Ocean -- then it makes their conflicting advertising copy a bit confusing to say the least. I mean, are chelators good or bad? One brand brags that they don't have any, although they did at one time, and another brand from the same plant brags that they are important for reef aquaria. And is there any connection between Omega and Instant Ocean besides the fact that they once employed the same manager?

 

[golfish]

Remember, Inland is doing this voluntarily. I think you guys should give them some slack. I don't hear anyone else offering to do this study for free.

Patience folks. The study will be well worth it end the end.

Louey

Remember, I gave them my money voluntarily......I see no progress at all so I want my money back. I'm not suggesting others do it. Like Kevin said "When this project began, it was billed as a "right now" type of project: give us money and we will test the salts we all want tested"

BTW, Matt's been real good about it and said my acount will be credited. I've always been a big fan of IA and see no reason why that wont continue.

 

[Anonymous]

Would you like a little cheese with your whine? Blah Blah Blah....

 

[Bone]

What's wrong with the man wanting to know where his money went? :roll:

From the useful responses to golfish's post we all gained some info as to how the project is coming along. From your post we gained nothing!

Have a nice day. :wink:

 

[Ikarus5150]

Has anyone seen this study?
http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm ... efault.asp

 

[Ninong]

Has anyone seen this study?
http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm ... efault.asp

Yes, just about everyone is familiar with that excellent study but it was done about 5 years ago and did not include some of the salt mixes that have enjoyed recent popularity.