Who needs wholesalers/LFS/etailers, let's do a group buy

[Race]

To my knowledge, no wholesaler gives priority treatment to dropshippers, either in selection or lower prices. It would be wrong if they did. For this reason, my approach is to house more and more fish in our Wisconsin facility and retail store, keeping dropshipping to a minimum. This allows me to use most every wholesaler, importer and distributor in Florida and California. This way I can purchase select fish from multiple entities. If I received priority treatment, I would only need a supplier or two. It is only fair that retailers and dropshippers be allocated fish or corals on a "first come- first serve" basis. I think that Eric and the other wholesalers play fair.
I might also add that we are willing to pay a premium to regional distributors for select specimens. If need be, we will even purchase from direct but quality competitors, mostly coral and rock. This is not the case with wholesalers as they tend to allocate to all of their customers equally, regardless of price. The buying power is more important in the hard goods arena. Paying your bills on time, every time, is the most important factor in securing quality livestock, along with utilizing multiple distribution channels for supply.

Race

 

[IAP Brian]

Thank you for the response Race, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question.

Thank you as well Eric. I appreciate your responses. I was not aware of the change in your stock list and the update available on a daily basis as I have not had a reliable rep since Sasha and was bummed when she left.

 

[JennM]

For this reason, my approach is to house more and more fish in our Wisconsin facility and retail store, keeping dropshipping to a minimum.

I'm puzzled, Race. Earlier in this thread you stated that 26% of your livestock sales are housed in your facility. That leaves 74% of your livestock sales as drop-ships. That's over 2/3 of your sales, hardly "a minimum".

Granted, if you're using every wholesaler FL and CA, that could be a small percentage from each one, but it was my understanding that your "main" supplier is a division of Quality Marine.

Did I miss something here?

Jenn

 

[Race]

No Jenn, you did not miss anything. I stated that all new growth is from our Wisconsin facility. Today the majority of our business is dropshipped but as a percentage it is declining each year. We have halted it's growth hence the term minimize. There will be a time when over 50 % of our sales will not be dropshipped.

 

[scottfarcuz]

Instead of a group buy how about an "exclusive members only online buying club"?

http://www.reefshow.com/Buyers_Club/

I guess you could just order at "wholesale prices"?

http://everything4saltwater.com/

Sorry if this has been mentioned elsewhere. I'm just a hobbyist that really enjoys following this forum, and I was curious what everyones take was on this type of thing.

 

[PeterIMA]

Reply to Scottfarcuz,

I think you missed the point. Most of the brick and mortor retailers are against etailing. Buying direct from collectors or from etailers is bad for retail sales. Hence, they are against it.

Although I am a scientist and have devoted 20 years to marine conservation, I was recently castigated because I mentioned on Industry Behind the Hobby that I am now selling net-caught marine fish. Your posting with URLs to commercial web sites is advertising and should have no place on this forum.

Peter Rubec

 

[GTR1]

Well, as a hobbyist, I don't know for sure that the first link that was posted is actually selling at "wholesale prices". You need to register just to see the price and I don't play that game.

The second link just looks like another run of the mill site that's underfunded and hiding behind DomainsByProxy for some reason.

SteveU

 

[Raskal311]

I like how there is a reefcentral banner is on the top of their site. I wonder if RC know

http://www.everything4saltwater.com/ind ... ath=55_316

 

[JennM]

That reefshow website - that's here in this area. I remember that guy - or at least the guy that started the "reefshow"... I googled the physical address and there's a lot of enterprises going on there.

The fellow that represented that entity came on one of the forums, maybe the Atlanta club forum - probably about 5 years ago, and he made quite an impression 8O And I wouldn't say it was a good one.

I don't know who he is, but he went on and on with some incoherent ramblings.

I'm not sure if that site is still the same guy but some of the entities at that street address were connected to him at that time. I can't remember his name but I want to say it was "Rocky" or something like that.

As for the second site - same stuff, different pile

Jenn

 

[JennM]

Rocky Scarfone - that was his name. Wish I could remember which board the guy's posts were on - they were, ummm entertaining to say the least.

Gotta love Google And the GA Corporations website.

Jenn

 

[scottfarcuz]

Reply to Scottfarcuz,

I think you missed the point. Most of the brick and mortor retailers are against etailing. Buying direct from collectors or from etailers is bad for retail sales. Hence, they are against it.

Although I am a scientist and have devoted 20 years to marine conservation, I was recently castigated because I mentioned on Industry Behind the Hobby that I am now selling net-caught marine fish. Your posting with URLs to commercial web sites is advertising and should have no place on this forum.

Peter Rubec

I guess the tone of humor I was trying to convey didn't come across even with the abunance of smileys? If so I am sorry. I thought the first sentence took a similar tone to the thread title?

I've read this forum long enough to know that a good part of the retail crowd doesn't care for the etailers. I'm not here to take sides on that issue at all. I just wanted to hear peoples opinions, or insight (like jenn provided) on the "pile" that seems to be forming with the hobby. I have a few very good LFS's and I honestly feel etailers like those listed above aren't even competition for a good shop with decent service. It just seems to me that a lot of these operations are showing up recently. I guess I am just curious why.

The website with the RC banner is a sponsor of the site and has a forum on RC. If you look at the reviews in the forum the service I think is actually bad enough to scare even the most tightwad of the reefing crowd off.

 

[JennM]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forum ... orumid=470

Zoiks Batman!

If I was a gambling type, I'd bet that that's one of those outfits that doesn't order it from their distributor until it's bought and paid for by the customer.

And then there's all that pesky minimum weekly order business from distributors...

Given that every post on their sponsor forum is negative and has to do with orders not being shipped and poor service/contact, I'd say that slim sales do not minimum orders make.

And puny orders do not wholesale discounts make. If they are selling for "wholesale list", and banking on the profit from their vendor discount, but not making minimum orders in order to get the freight promptly to their customers... well even with decent sized order volume the discount from the distributor isn't enough to make any money once you cover your overhead - and somebody has to sit behind the computer and print out postage and labels and pack foam peanuts into a box.

Of course that's just pure speculation on my part...

Like I said - same stuff, different pile.

We had a guy around here for a while selling the hell out of stuff on eBay but he ended up being booted off for so much negative feedback.

The bottom line is you shouldn't sell it before you actually *have* it.

They got their RC sponsor forum in February - so it's another Johnny-Come-Lately.... *zzz*

That ole etail thing comes full circle after enough people have been burned - the bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweet price is forgotten. Get a bargain basement price - but never receive your order... that's a real bargooon NOT!

Thanks for the funny, ScottFarcuz - ya made my day

Jenn

 

[scottfarcuz]

Glad I could give you some entertainment.

Seems like at the rate these operations are setting up, and burning people the masses should be rushing to the B&M soon....

 

[JennM]

Well some folks have to actually PEE on the electric fence for themselves.

And just like brick and mortars, there are good and bad etailers out there. The difference is when a "virtual" shop burns you it's kind of hard to picket them, especially with no actual human being to be left holding the bag.

Sites that don't have *any* information about who the man behind the curtain is, frighten me. I don't like doing business with anonymous entities.

What does the consumer do when they've made an electronic payment and don't get results? They can get their money back but they have to jump through hoops to get it.

I'd venture to guess that a lot of these dotcoms go under simply because their credit card processors kick them off for excessive chargebacks.

The web is becoming overrun with fly by night dot coms that spring up offering almost free pricing and little or no service - and they disappear as fast as they turn up, and often there's a trail of unfilled orders in their wake.

The bottom line for *any* business is that you can't sell without any markup and expect to pay the bills. With everybody out there cutting their own throats to cut everybody else's, they will mostly cancel each other out sooner or later.

I don't think Race's mail order business will go away any time soon - but all these little cottage businesses can't compete. I DO think that competition is good - but a little "David" in a garage in Ohio or wherever, doesn't stand much chance against Goliath in this story.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

Although I am a scientist and have devoted 20 years to marine conservation, I was recently castigated because I mentioned on Industry Behind the Hobby that I am now selling net-caught marine fish. Your posting with URLs to commercial web sites is advertising and should have no place on this forum.

Not true. How is it adversting? Your funny (good joke) or confused :lol:

He broke no rules, written or implied, nor was he out of line in any way by posting those sites. He followed proper nettique.

He was trying to stimulate converstation and I for one welcome him to this forum.

Welcome to the IBTH scottfarcuz

 

[Piero]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=49eb7277322944aa616e7734ea0ddcc8&forumid=470
That ole etail thing comes full circle after enough people have been burned - the bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweet price is forgotten. Get a bargain basement price - but never receive your order... that's a real bargooon NOT!

Jenn, I realize you would like to believe that is the case with all etailors, but the reality is there are good and bad businesses, same as with B&M. I suspect there's more axe-grinding than rational analysis at work here. I don't think that poor quality is umbilical-ly connected with online business, as you seem to suggest.
_________________
Political risk insurance Forum

 

[GTR1]

I think a few manufactuers are seing the effects of the pricing stuctures they've created. The value (perceived or otherwise) has eroded in many cases to the point that there's not enough profit in the product to warrant even invoicing it (or ringing it up).

SteveU

 

[JennM]

And just like brick and mortars, there are good and bad etailers out there. The difference is when a "virtual" shop burns you it's kind of hard to picket them, especially with no actual human being to be left holding the bag.

Piero, READ my post. I didn't tar everyone with the same brush - but it's much easier to screw people when they can't get in your face to yell at you.

Jenn

 

[Piero]

sry if I misunderstood.
_________________
how to roll joint

 

[JennM]

No problem, I just wanted to be sure you "heard" me properly

Anybody can slap up a website and advertise wholesale list prices, but how many will last at that rate? You have to sell a TON of stuff to make any money and with new sites popping up here, there and everywhere, there isn't enough thinly sliced pie to go around.

Jenn