Who needs wholesalers/LFS/etailers, let's do a group buy

[Anonymous]

Search Google. Breeders sell direct with a one year guarantee and almost all ship. Breeders have their own WYSWYG with video and pictures. In the end, I will be cut out of the droppshipping fish business as well . The Importers will sell direct. That will be sooner than you think as ERI has already attempted it. I guess it only makes sense that they eliminate me, hence my own operation in Wisconsin. There is no middleman as Mitch pointed out.
What has happened with cats and dogs should be an eye opener. Remember the unregulated cute puppy in the window, now the USDA controls all levels from breeding on up.

could you explain and elaborate upon this staement ?

 

[swsaltwater]

I don't actually mind Eric doing this as long as it's once in a blue moon. I know as a hobyist I would have loved to see SDC. Heck I would even see about gathering up the Tucson club for a field trip, but I think you should charge discounted retail not wholesale or no sales at all strictly education or maybe a raffle for a few rare items...... The only issue I see with charging or showing them wholesale prices is they would forever go to their LFS and complain of the price then eventually play into the etailers hands to save a buck. No one ever sees the elec bill, rent, employee wages, loss, etc. They think B&M's can live on 1 dollar a fish profit and I have had people find out info they shouldn't know online and say that fish cost you 3 bucks, say I give you 5......

It would kinda be like Chevy opening the plant once a year and showing all how cheap corvettes are then expecting them to buy from a dealer for 50% more later on. They would just wait for the next plant opening.......

 

[Race]

Vitz,
I purchased FlyingFish Express directly from Rob Miller of ERI, he was the owner.

 

[JennM]

what I hear are businesses complaining because consumers are becoming educated and prudent with their money once they are exposed to other hobbyists in a club setting....instead of remaining oblivious and easily exploited by the trade. What does this say? It reminds us of the realities...and how vested interests work against ethical ideals.

No Piero what you hear are people that invested their life savings to open a retail store and got the proper licenses to buy wholesale, complaining because this same priviledge is being extended to hobbists, at the expense of those retailers. So Eric how do you handle the sales tax you are required to charge when you sell at retail like that. I have a feeling the state of California wouldn't like this arrangement as you are probably cheating them out of revenue.
Mitch

Good point. Selling out of state is no problem (ie drop-ship) if one does not have a retail presence in that state, but selling "retail" to consumers via walk in or mail order in the state where one has a presence requires the collection and remittance of sales tax.

That's where Race may keep his advantage over Petco.

Jenn

 

[JennM]

what I hear are businesses complaining because consumers are becoming educated and prudent with their money once they are exposed to other hobbyists in a club setting....instead of remaining oblivious and easily exploited by the trade. What does this say? It reminds us of the realities...and how vested interests work against ethical ideals.

The networking and information sharing advantages of traditional clubs are now provided by the internet completely. The few remaining advantages in regional associations revolve around leveraging buying power and trading/selling cultured livestock. And this is a surprise to someone??? Someone didn't see that coming?? Adapt.

I also doubt that this hobby relies exclusively on the LFS for recruitment. Maybe in 1980 it relied heavily on stores, but now we have a new reality. The idea that the trade 'needs' a lot of B&M stores in order to survive or get 'the word out' ot the general public seems short-sighted.

I founded the local club - while I worked in the trade. It was meant to be a social and educational club - so you don't hear me whining about that - what I do think is sad is that the main purpose of the club seems to be that it's become a "discount club" - the main mandate of the club seems to have been lost. People don't know each other anymore except for a few cliques and the fellowship seems to be lost.

About 14 locals got together for dinner and a drink a few weeks ago - I went to that and it was FUN - that's what the club was meant to be, not the greedy cheapskate club it has become.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps we are heading in the right direction.
I would like to offer a perspective based on my early years of inexperience.
As I mentioned, today I purchase fish and corals from almost all, if not all of US Fish and Coral Suppliers and Wholesalers. No one supplier can do it all. I make it a point to never boycott one or burn bridges and the reason is because of the impending consolidation of Wholesalers/Importers. My competitor today, I may need as my supplier tomorrow. There are people right here on this board that I exchanged heated cyber words with last year, but I buy fish and coral from the company that he is affiliated with today. No grudges on my end. We need each other in order to serve the hobbyist with livestock.
My point is, if you want to boycott SDC, Quality Marine, ERI, PAF and the others, do not expect them to be there for you when your supplier gets lost in the consolidation. They will not be. I know that it is a two way street and therefore I have supported them all.

I think that it is best for the hobby and all of us within the industry to have strong Wholesalers/Importers-- without them we will have no fish or coral. I do not know who will survive the consolidations and therefore I am going to support them all. I am keeping my options open and you may want to as well.


Race

As the husbandry co-manager of Exotic Reef Imports, I am stating unequivocably that Exotic Reef Imports has never sold to F&S, or any internet based 'e-tailer', or cherry picker. Period.We are exclusively a retail store oriented wholesaler.


you definitely do not purchase from ALL of us

 

[Race]

Vitz,
Am I wrong or are you associated with ERI or Rob Miller? Correct me if I am incorrect . Makes no difference to me but I heard that on the street.

 

[Race]

Vitz,
You were also with MarineDepot/Live a direct shipper, is this also not correct ? Is the message you are trying to send retailers--- that you and ERI are"borne agains" ?

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz,
I purchased FlyingFish Express directly from Rob Miller of ERI, he was the owner.

Flying fish express was owned by eric silverman, NOT rob miller

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz,
Am I wrong or are you associated with ERI or Rob Miller? Correct me if I am incorrect . Makes no difference to me but I heard that on the street.

ERI has not existed for a few years-so no one is associated with it. Period.

 

[Race]

WRONG,
I personally met with ROB MILLER and paid ROB MILLER the money for Flying Fish. He wanted to keep my business but after personally touring the " new ERI facility " with ROB MILLER I did not think that ERI was ready to handle my volume. Not sure of IRA or Silverman's involvement but all of my dealings were with ROB MILLER personally of ERI. I did it myself so please do not attempt to tell me any different.

Enough said on the subject.

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz,
You were also with MarineDepot/Live a direct shipper, is this also not correct ? Is the message you are trying to send retailers--- that you and ERI are"borne agains" ?

:lol:


duuude, i was a CSR (customer service rep) working for marine depot, NOT marine depot live (but so what ? i had nothing to do with their business choices, or direction) and got fired from there-my main gig was helping hobbyists choose the right equipment for the job they wanted done

i also worked for MSI for a short while, CORL, various lfs retailers in two countries, a commercial fishpond farmer overseas, etc etc -i'm jewish, so no being 'born again' here :lol:

My focus is and always has been trying to mitigate damage done to the reefs by giving the livestock every chance possible to succeed, as well as the retailers and hobbyists in keeping their charges alive-it's connected to the concept of 'Tza'ar ba'aley hayim' (be sympathetic to animals).

i am and always have been an EMPLOYEE, not an owner, policy maker, board member, etc etc-so i'd suggest you try and stop your 'spin'-it doesn't, and won't, hold water.

i'm saying you are mentioning a now DEFUNCT company when you mention ERI-it doesn't exist anymore-and i'd suggest you get the rest of what you're posting here factually correct

 

[Race]

Does Rob Miller still exist and what is your business relationship to him ? Vitz you started this subject so I will figure out the answers for you in the next week or so.

 

[Anonymous]

WRONG,
I personally met with ROB MILLER and paid ROB MILLER the money for Flying Fish. He wanted to keep my business but after personally touring the " new ERI facility " with ROB MILLER I did not think that ERI was ready to handle my volume. Not sure of IRA or Silverman's involvement but all of my dealings were with ROB MILLER personally of ERI. I did it myself so please do not attempt to tell me any different.

Enough said on the subject.

you may think what you want-but you will never know the truth

 

[Anonymous]

Does Rob Miller still exist and what is your business relationship to him ? Vitz you started this subject so I will figure out the answers for you in the next week or so.

ooooooooooh......

 

[Race]

Marine depot and MarineDepot/Live are the same company with the same owner. You worked for a direct shipper and defended them on this very board. If I were a retailer and wanted to boycott, I would begin with you and the company you currently work for. Vitz, I would quit while you are only slightly behind. Your company does not need this and you created it.

Race

 

[Anonymous]

<moderator>Guys, stop being weenies. 'Time outs' are just around the corner. </moderator>

 

[Race]

Vitz,
Are you saying that I should litigate Rob for misrepresentation and selling a company that he did not have ownership in ?
Words of Wisdom Vitz--- This is now becoming a legal issue, choose your words very carefully. There is some l history that you should be aware of. It had nothing to do with me---------- but be very, very careful.

 

[Race]

Thales,
Thanks, I am done.------Race

 

[Anonymous]

Marine depot and MarineDepot/Live are the same company with the same owner. You worked for a direct shipper and defended them on this very board. If I were a retailer and wanted to boycott, I would begin with you and the company you currently work for. Vitz, I would quit while you are only slightly behind. Your company does not need this and you created it.

Race

how does working as a csr for marine depot have anything to do with anything at all?

working for them has nothing to do with agreeing with anything they do, in particular, and i'm not working for them now-as i said earlier, i was fired from there quite awhile ago

why would a retailer want to boycott a wholesaler who works exclusively with retail stores ? doesn't make sense to me, unless you're NOW preaching cutting off one's nose to spite one's face, the opposite of what you preached just a short while ago