Thales said:Actually, I cannot think of a single full line shop within driving distance that carries dogs and cats. Many people have no problem dropping bucks on a mammal, but they mostly do it through a breeder nowadays, and a lot of that is set up through the net. Heck, adopting dogs and cats over the net is big as well - you can find the animal you want and not have to drive from shelter to shelter (even shelters have adoption websites).[/quote]
With all due respect Thales you would have to be a moron to adopt a dog online from a shelter. You see a picture and you think what a cute puppy without ever stopping to wonder why the puppy ended up there in the first place. If it is a full blooded dog more likely than not it has behavioral issues. (i.e. excessive barking, biting, won't house train, or really hyper) People just don't spend $500-1,000 on a dog and take it to the shelter for no reason. But you are going to hear the people's kid was allergic to it or something like that. The reason many stores (certain states) don't carry puppies is that the animal rights people have gotten really strict laws passed. In some cases I think you have to guarantee the health of the puppy for a year after purchase. Can you imagine how many stores would drop marine fish if a similar law is enacted for our industry? Think it can't happen? Consider that in Maine is nearly impossible to get a permit to keep koi. A restaurant owner recently spent $20K fighting for the right to keep koi in an aquarium. He won after many months, but has to keep a locked top on the tank and immediately report any loses to the state among other things. The state's logic is that koi can be an invasive species, even though carp are already in state waters and the colors on koi make them easy targets for predators and not likley to develop breeding populations. Herons love them btw. Welcome to the future of big government deciding what we can and can't do for us.
Mitch
To assume the importers will all sell direct in 5 years means you feel 100% will be online sales. I still think that there will always be those that don't want to buy online, and want a LFS to pick out fish. It only means LFS will have to buy from collecters direct just like the big boys to compete price wise. The scenario you speak of would ruin most industries, and might kill ours. If all sales are online who will bring new hobbyist to the table? Petco?
dizzy":25opilme said:
Most shelters have a site showing the dogs, so you don't drive around looking for something that they don't have. You actually have to go to the shelter to adopt it. Sorry I was unclear.
Adopting any animal is always a risk.
I adopted a Chinese Crested from out of state from a picture. She was a great dog, and I don't regret it at all. Many many people do the same with greyhounds and assisted living animals that wash out of the program.
I think painting with the broad brush of 'moron' regarding something that is your personal opinion is a not a great way to have a discussion.
Thales I'm sorry you couldn't follow the logic as to why it's not a good idea to buy a full blooded puppy from a pound picture. If you got lucky, you got lucky but IMO more people will be disappointed than satified when buying full blooded puppies from a shelter. Mixed breeds however are another issue entirely, as I think plenty of good mixed breeds get dumped at the shelter.
Mitch
PS I wasn't referring to you personally.
Mitch
PS I wasn't referring to you personally.
Interesting enough, yesterday we had a reef club contact us for a group buy.....they contacted one of our reps who brought it to my attention. I just suggested he ask them to find a LFS that they can work with and we will try to accomodate their needs.....
Seems to me that LFS's should have some kind of discount program for clubs....like I said before ...."embrace them".
Coincidence? Maybe...but very "on topic" here.
Regards....
Seems to me that LFS's should have some kind of discount program for clubs....like I said before ...."embrace them".
Coincidence? Maybe...but very "on topic" here.
Regards....
sdcfish":p0dl1fls said:
That's exactly what our club does with our LFS sponsors. If someone wants a group by, we try to run it through an LFS. We just had one for test kits and an LFS offered to be the pick up point for the product, but didn't take a cut of the group buy. Very nice - everyone who participated in the GB went to that LFS and almost all walked away with something extra they bought at the store. Worked out well for everyone.
dizzy":3nddkp7g said:
I don't believe I missed the logic. Actually, I think I supported the idea that doing adopting an animal is always a risk. I didn't really go into detail because I don't think its all that relevant to this forum of this discussion. YMMV. Also, I think you missed the part where I clarified that you can't adopt from a pound by picture, that you have to actually go to the pound and that the picture only aids in making the search for the right animal easier?
But you ended up doing so, which is why I think terms like 'moron' are best left out of open discussions. BTW, do you realize you phrases like 'I'm sorry you couldn't follow the logic' are almost always interpreted as insulting?
dizzy":3v95lafv said:
He said he does that once a year, which I think actually benefits everyone in the hobby. Most hobbyists are dying to see what a wholesaler is like on the inside.
I don't know about the group Eric is dealing with, but at similar events (we don't hold events where people can buy from wholesalers as not to step on LFS toes - although, perhaps making it some kind of fundraiser by charging 10-15% above wholesale and then donating that money to something reef or industry worthy would be a great idea) we have raffles with donated product from LFS and with LFS gift certificates, both of which serve to drive traffic to the stores.
swsaltwater,
All importers will not be selling online, but some will. If I were SDC and retailers were threatening to boycott me, I would begin shipping direct to the customers that I used to service via retail. I think that Eric should do that rather than risk his livelihood. Would not be good for me or you but a Wholesaler has to do what is right for his everchanging business. They have to replace any lost retailers and it will be via direct shipping, I promise. I am only using SDC as an example. I have no insight into their business practices. I respect Wholesalers/Importers because without them, we are history.
All importers will not be selling online, but some will. If I were SDC and retailers were threatening to boycott me, I would begin shipping direct to the customers that I used to service via retail. I think that Eric should do that rather than risk his livelihood. Would not be good for me or you but a Wholesaler has to do what is right for his everchanging business. They have to replace any lost retailers and it will be via direct shipping, I promise. I am only using SDC as an example. I have no insight into their business practices. I respect Wholesalers/Importers because without them, we are history.
Race":37p5jior said:
Race,
You make an excellent point. Anyone that is using a wholesaler to dropship is providing said wholesaler with a ready made list of their customers. At some point in time the wholesaler will no longer require the services of the retailer. It's funny but a fellow retailer and I were discussing this very point a couple weeks back. Can you imagine if Quality decided they would like to cut you out? Wow that's a scary thought.
Mitch
Yes...we allow the clubs to come once a year. We have a discussion about environmental issues, husbandry issues, new trends/species etc before we let people purchase. I also make sure that all the local clubs are participating so we can impact as many as possible and make it worth while for us and the clubs. The savings are for the members as a reward for being active and staying involved in the hobby.
They have regular meetings and import speakers at the club's expenses..I have attended a few meetings and been able to speak about issues that are important to me and the environment.
On another note....within the last hour, I have had one phone call blowing the horn on a local company handing out our pricelists to hobbyists for group buys.....that just got squashed. Another new customer had faxed in paperwork that seemed "fishy"....we called and it was a doctor's office....they have two big fish tanks the receptionist said....another squashed....so we do what we can...but two in the last 30 or 60 minutes.....sheesh! Call the retail police!
Best regards...
They have regular meetings and import speakers at the club's expenses..I have attended a few meetings and been able to speak about issues that are important to me and the environment.
On another note....within the last hour, I have had one phone call blowing the horn on a local company handing out our pricelists to hobbyists for group buys.....that just got squashed. Another new customer had faxed in paperwork that seemed "fishy"....we called and it was a doctor's office....they have two big fish tanks the receptionist said....another squashed....so we do what we can...but two in the last 30 or 60 minutes.....sheesh! Call the retail police!
Best regards...
sdcfish":28gscsze said:
Unfortunately, many clubs have become "discount clubs" - the local club here boasts over 400 "members" but in actual fact only about 10% of the members ever show up to meetings, and that's usually when there's some kind of freebie or giveaway. The rest are neither active at meetings nor on the online forums - which leads me to believe that they are simply buying a "membership" card that will give them a discount at the various sponsor stores (of which I am not one - I was in the beginning but no more). When asked I simply ask the consumer to compare my prices and see if my prices are as good as the "discounted" prices elsewhere - and usually they are competitive. I don't think it's fair to the non-member consumer to pay more, when the person who paid $20 to a third party gets a percentage off their sale. But that's just me. The club I refer to was originally intended to be social/educational but it's turned into a discount club, for the most part. YES they still have conferences and speakers etc., but for the most part from what I've seen and heard, it's mostly just a clearing house.
I did do a salt group buy some months ago - about 10 members participated - if that... so the "400" members or so are just not that active.
Jenn
what I hear are businesses complaining because consumers are becoming educated and prudent with their money once they are exposed to other hobbyists in a club setting....instead of remaining oblivious and easily exploited by the trade. What does this say? It reminds us of the realities...and how vested interests work against ethical ideals.
The networking and information sharing advantages of traditional clubs are now provided by the internet completely. The few remaining advantages in regional associations revolve around leveraging buying power and trading/selling cultured livestock. And this is a surprise to someone??? Someone didn't see that coming?? Adapt.
I also doubt that this hobby relies exclusively on the LFS for recruitment. Maybe in 1980 it relied heavily on stores, but now we have a new reality. The idea that the trade 'needs' a lot of B&M stores in order to survive or get 'the word out' ot the general public seems short-sighted.
_________________
Hip Problems Forum
The networking and information sharing advantages of traditional clubs are now provided by the internet completely. The few remaining advantages in regional associations revolve around leveraging buying power and trading/selling cultured livestock. And this is a surprise to someone??? Someone didn't see that coming?? Adapt.
I also doubt that this hobby relies exclusively on the LFS for recruitment. Maybe in 1980 it relied heavily on stores, but now we have a new reality. The idea that the trade 'needs' a lot of B&M stores in order to survive or get 'the word out' ot the general public seems short-sighted.
_________________
Hip Problems Forum
Piero":3ib0fz6n said:
No Piero what you hear are people that invested their life savings to open a retail store and got the proper licenses to buy wholesale, complaining because this same priviledge is being extended to hobbists, at the expense of those retailers. So Eric how do you handle the sales tax you are required to charge when you sell at retail like that. I have a feeling the state of California wouldn't like this arrangement as you are probably cheating them out of revenue.
Mitch
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