Aquarium LED Lighting under siege

[Killerdrgn]

Doing something to advance "technology" is just pure fantasy world. Things are done to make money not so everyone has the best product. It's just like Ink posted before, this is business. Orbitel got the patent and they have the right to do with it what they want, including making as much money as they see fit off of it. Orbitel is protecting their patent, which I'm sure they invested a lot of time and money into. They also see it as and asset and want to make as much as they can off of that asset.

If they don't actually have a product to bring to market then it only really cost them $165 to file this bs patent.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2009january01_2009jan12.htm#patapp

 

[marrone]

If they don't actually have a product to bring to market then it only really cost them $165 to file this bs patent.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2009january01_2009jan12.htm#patapp

Don't forget the cost and time(R&D) in developing the idea or product that went into getting that patent. And if it didn't cost them that much, or the idea came to them very quickly, then more the better for them. And they don't have to bring a product to market, they can lease their patent to other companies, who may use part or the whole thing in another product. A lot of people became very rich by lease their patent to other companies.

Remember this is business, and business is never fair.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Don't forget the cost and time(R&D) in developing the idea or product that went into getting that patent. And if it didn't cost them that much, or the idea came to them very quickly, then more the better for them. And they don't have to bring a product to market, they can lease their patent to other companies, who may use part or the whole thing in another product. A lot of people became very rich by lease their patent to other companies.

Remember this is business, and business is never fair.

I guest no one doubts about the unfairness part in business but it is ironic for the patent office to make this statement "A patent for an invention is the grant of a property right to the inventor, issued by the United States Patent and Trademark Office. "(quoted directly from USPTO official website) that played out protecting "a broad description of the obvious-non invention and the public is saying the patent thing is strictly business and have no intent to advance technology.

 

[Kamy]

Gotta chime in because this whole thing has me pretty ticked off. I'm about 6 months away from getting the aquarium I have wanted for years, and was going to go LED lighting, not from PFO but another brand, but the other manufacturers are going to be meat also if Orbitec wins this suit. :irked:

Orbitec filed this patent in Dec 2004, well check this link here, http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/feature.htm

Here you see Tullio Del Aquilla was demonstrating LED's 1. mounted in a hood 2. over a marine aquarium 3. for the purpose of supporting marine life.

Yea, and this was like in 2002, article written in May of 2003

This was demonstrated at an IMAC conference, I'm not sure which one, it is not specifically listed in the article.

Now here is a snippet from Orbitec's recent statement... "As ORBITEC's president, I am an avid aquarium enthusiast. Back in 2003, the company combined my new-found passion for aquariums with our decade-long experience in LED lighting systems... <snip>"

2003???

Okay, picture this... New aquarium enthusiast with his own tech company goes to the IMAC show, likely sees Tullio's set up, runs back to his geek squad and they skip merrily on over to the patent office with that lame a$$ patent. (yea, and stealing someone elses intellectual property, that is documented though not patented)

Now granted, it might not have been Tulio's setup up he saw or even at the same show, but I would bet this is what happened.

My point is, the technology was already being used for lightiing aquariums, unlike the claim in their patent.

I know there are folks that will defend them with the "they got to the patent office first", or "Tullio should have patented it first" argument, but the point is, he did not want to patent it and felt the idea should remain in the public domain as this is where the innovation comes from.

Anyway I would love to know how long that Apollo LED Aquarium Lighting System page has been up and running. Anyone know enough to be able to figure that out?

And if you think this guy is going to release a cheaper product than PFO or any of the others, think again, that sunbow LED adjustable desk lamp looking thing is $750

Ok, done ranting for now

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Albert

No worries you can always make yoour own as a diy project like Iplan on doing.

By the time you are ready to get parts. I hook you up with some good stuff like the 12,000K Power LEDs.

 

[dickenscd]

Am I off base or is that a bullsh!t patent. They have patented the idea of using a light source they did not invent for the specific application of growing marine life. How does that get by the USTPO ? All they did was make an enclosure and controller for LEDS, they did not 'invent' anything new.

There are quite a few procedures required before a patent is officially granted, one of them is the notice to the public for chanllenge/objection. Did anyone chanllenge it before the patent was granted to Orbitec?

PFO is not a big company, but there are quite a few big players such as "Current", "Coralife", "Giesemann" in the aquarium lighting industry. Were they sleeping?

Were they not aware the huge impact on them if Orbitec got the patent?

Were they not aware of it when Orbitec was applying the patent?

Did they take any action to challenge it before the patent was officially approved?

If not, why not?

Or they just agreed the patent is legitimate, no one dared to think it is bullsh!t.

They were quite a few pieces in the puzzle still missing, does anyone know about it?

Sanjay told me that the LED can possibly replace most of the lightings including MH in aquarium industry after he saw the growth of corals and colors in my tank under LED lights. The impack to the industry is possibly more than we can imagine if the Orbitec patent can not be reversed.

James

 

[alrha]

Why is it assumed that this is the END of LED lighting, it is probably just going to be matter of them wanting some piece of the profits (royalties) which may add a premium to the price. They would stand to gain nothing by killing the technology. Granted higher prices may SLOW the advancement of the technology as it will take longer to be competitive with current technologies, but i dont know that we should be writing the obituary just yet.

 

[Kamy]

I don't think it marks the end of LED aquarium lighting at all, however it does throw a huge monkey wrench into the development of them. Who is going to keep pushing the envelope on this technology while this suit is pending? Not to mention the increase in price that will come if/when everyone has to be paying royalties to this company.

Now would I buy a product from Orbitec? If it seemed like a better solution sure, of course I would (if it was not cost prohibitive), but they don't have any information on their website other than their very broad statements about colors/growth/algae inhibition, etc.

Most of what they state is already known to those who are following the technology (well the preventing algae growth is new to me), but they post no research data, no images of prototypes or upcoming products, and what is with the images they have there? A picture of a lamnilia, some feather dusters and some other black and white photo I have no idea what it is... Well it doesn't make me say to myself "self, I think you should hold off on your upcoming build to see what this company is going to release, it is certain to be better than what others are putting out right now because these guys really know what they are doing!"

And being 6 months away from my new build, and having been planning on going LED since conception, I am a bit ticked off this cropped up now and may delay my setup as availability of any LED lighting is likely to be affected.

Of course, I am certain I am not as mad as all of those who have already bought systems and are now losing on their investments because of the loss of customer support this suit has brought to them.

 

[jejton]

FYI: Owning a patent doesn't mean/require the holder to bring a product to market.

Agreed but it does give the holder the right to defend that patent. I also said that while they might not be interested in bringing the product to market, they dont have much interest in forcing other companies out of the market. It is to their benefit to have other companies incorporate this technology into their products and successfully market it as then they can make royalties. This is especially true if they are not planning on marketing it themselves. The lawsuit, in that case, would not be an attempt at extortion but rather to force PFO and others to recognize their legal right to royalties, etc. Do you think that PFO would willingly pay bend over and pay royalties if this issue wasn't brought to court? If they plan on marketing this technology themselves then they have a vested interest in forcing others out. Either way, if it is a rationally run company, this will not mean the end of LED's for the hobby.

 

[inkblue]

:wow: tHis thread is STILL going... so how many oF you have LED lightinG sorry, I didnt get an anSwer.

winGo is excLuded in this coZ he is just plain cooL :hug:

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

:wow: tHis thread is STILL going... so how many oF you have LED lightinG sorry, I didnt get an anSwer.

winGo is excLuded in this coZ he is just plain cooL :hug:

I know coz I am good looking and smart:tongue1:

 

[inkblue]

I know coz I am good looking and smart:tongue1:

:dead1::scared:

 

[jhale]

:wow: tHis thread is STILL going... so how many oF you have LED lightinG sorry, I didnt get an anSwer.

winGo is excLuded in this coZ he is just plain cooL :hug:

what does it matter? so far only James has posted photos of his LED light's,

and there seem to be at least two people who are ready to purchase LEDS.

Then there is Wingo who has made LEDs.

Does that help you?

 

[jejton]

Wingo - Have you spoken to a legal counsel as to how this patent can affect your LED project? I'd be interested to hear what they would say.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Wingo - Have you spoken to a legal counsel as to how this patent can affect your LED project? I'd be interested to hear what they would say.

There are ways to get around it but will cause me some inconvenience in the marketing.


I think someone will eventually invalidate the patent(as I strongly believe this is not an invention but a broad discription of the obvious) if there proved to be a real market(money) that warrants the new venture to sue the patent validility.

I probaby will retain my friend who is in the field when I come back to New York next trip. i guess he would not want me to discuss any further after the retainment.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

what does it matter? so far only James has posted photos of his LED light's,

and there seem to be at least two people who are ready to purchase LEDS.

Then there is Wingo who has made LEDs.

Does that help you?

Besides what JHales mentioned I know at least 6 more members are using it. Four of them are saying good things about it while one have switched the old Soloaris H to some other technology and the other I have not asked his final take.

 

[inkblue]

what does it matter? so far only James has posted photos of his LED light's,

and there seem to be at least two people who are ready to purchase LEDS.

Then there is Wingo who has made LEDs.

Does that help you?

:shhh: some peepS are poSting and tHey dont eVen got a taNk... wHen tHey did, taNk look like the eaSt riVer

 

[Kamy]

:shhh: some peepS are poSting and tHey dont eVen got a taNk... wHen tHey did, taNk look like the eaSt riVer

Is there a problem with your keyboard or do you go out of your way to ranDom caPs lOck likE tHat?

I do have a tank, currently use submersible LED's in my refugium and will be setting up a 200+ gallon setup in the next few months and am planning on complete LED lighting for the main display.

 

[inkblue]

i go ouT of mY waY to annoy peepS ...is it worKing?

 

[kool-cat]

Thats a real shame. LEDS save alot of energy. Theres LED Flash lights and light bulbs and stuff. To make these things cost extra money because of a patent sucks.