Aquarium LED Lighting under siege

[ellebelle]

Didn't Tullio Del Aquila talk about the use of LEDs as a light source for marine aquariums in MACNA in August of 2002? Doesn't that make it public knowledge? I suppose Orbitec could argue that they had their LEDs adjustable in their patent so it's a different idea.

It looks like they have an earlier patent from 1996 from when they started their light research. Not directly related to LEDs, but certainly shows they've been in R&D for a while.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=uFsnAAAAEBAJ

 

[prattreef]

It looks like they have an earlier patent from 1996 from when they started their light research.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=uFsnAAAAEBAJ

That seems completely unrelated to the current case.

 

[ReeferMadness99]

Well, I guess its happening because Foster's & Smith has taken the 72" Solaris out of my wishlist and removed it from the website. That sucks, I'm getting ready to build my 180gal reef tank over the summer. I guess I better buy the light now on ebay : (

 

[ReeferMadness99]

Hey does anyone know if I buy the Solaris now, what happens to the 2 year manufacturer's warranty? If it breaks after they stop production will they still cover the parts?

 

[jhale]

if their out of business who is going to cover the parts? I think you'd be on your own then.

 

[Marteen]

You can still get them from Marinedepot.com but I would be worried if the company goes under. I hear these things take a few months to tune in and while the company is good about replacing parts, if it goes under there won't be anyone to replace the parts.

 

[ReeferMadness99]

Is the whole company going under or just a division of it?

 

[dickenscd]

This was just posted by Jake Adams on the Reef Builders site:

http://www.reefbuilders.com/2009/02/03/big-trouble-brewing-future-aquarium-leds/#more-4332

I have been aware of this for some time, and the account is accurate. Sad, sad, stuff IMO. And yes our good MR friend Joy was one of the ones let go

Jake Adams wrote in the above link,

"The story all began when we were informed that PFO Lighting, one of the leading innovators and manufacturers of aquarium lighting, laid off their entire staff. Why would a thriving company with innovative products such as the Solaris be forced to do such a thing? Because they are being sued by patent trolls who have nothing to do with our industry!"


If PFO laid off their entire staff, are they still in business?

James

 

[ellebelle]

That seems completely unrelated to the current case.

I couldn't tell since I don't really know much about lighting and how it works. Seems like they were patenting some kind of reflective technology at the very least in 1996. I mainly brought it up to show that these guys haven't just come out of nowhere with the lights. They were working on various kinds of lighting since before 1996.

I have said this to some people privately, and I will say it 100% publically here. I feel very bad for the employees at PFO who are losing their jobs during a poor economic time. But I think that Jake's article makes this a black and white case when it is anything but. He made a very impassioned argument - which is perfectly understandable, considering many people in the marine aquarium hobby have personal relationships with the people at PFO. I just think that there are a lot of different factors interacting here and just because as hobbyists we havn't heard of Orbitel or Orbitec before doesn't mean they haven't been in R&D on something for some time. I don't think it's as simple as Orbitel bad, PFO good.

To me, I think what will be most interesting is to see how this is going to impact consumers. The Solaris fixtures were already pretty expensive.

 

[caad3]

Totally agree

This looks like a clear case of trying to corner the overall led market. The issue will come down to money, and I hope PFO can counter to coupe fees. Or the court throws this BS lawsuit out the window.

Am I off base or is that a bullsh!t patent. They have patented the idea of using a light source they did not invent for the specific application of growing marine life. How does that get by the USTPO ? All they did was make an enclosure and controller for LEDS, they did not 'invent' anything new.

 

[Keith P]

A little off topic, but doesn't this patent affect every aquarium fixture that DOESN'T use leds??http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5089940.html

 

[Killerdrgn]

It doesn't just affect lighting, it's a patent on ALL hoods for tanks. it just said it may also include lighting aspects to the Hood. The patent on it was filed in 1989, so it's possible they settled with AGA and stuff.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Perhaps a good lawyer can, but good lawyers cost a lot of $$$$ and that is part of the game. No one knows how this is going to turn out
...

So, these guys could win simply by having deeper pockets and playing the game well. If this happens we'll see if they actually intend to enter the aquarium market or not.

I cannot resist not to comment on this thread.

I totally agreed with your statements, as I have seen how some of the Lotus worksheet "look and feel" lawsuits played out.

I also was also involved in couple lawsuits that the deeper pocket side won as one side ended with no more money to pay for a lawsuit.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I remembered someone has asked how I optimized my light to get the best out of the LED or why I claimed mine is better. I answered him, that I cannot patent my improvement as it's not an innovation, it's just some common knowledge from prior arts, so I cannot release information about it. From the links of all these articles, there seems no innovations anywhere. The patent officer who signed it off must have slept or "slept with someone special." To have a valid patent, the appliant should at least prove it will work at the time the design is submitted, not when someone else in the future prove it works. That is, blah blah blah nonsense and wait for one of those hit.

In the application, Orbitel mentioned he is aware of LED for moonlight but no one has used it for main light. HE IS DEAD WRONG. I used for my planted tanks before I come to US!!!! That's too many years back.

 

[inkblue]

hey, looK at it from the patent hoLder's point oF view they got in there fiRst... stop crying aBout what they wanna do with their patent. it's theirs and they have EVERY right to do with it what they want.

if it was someOne you liked enforcing their patent, am sure ya'LL be on their side.

it's just businesS, stop compLaining and stop foLLowing the MR 'herd'... :sigh:

 

[dickenscd]

TanK and Corals with 6 feet Solaris I

Tank was setup by Dec. 2007. Most corals, including the green slimer, green milli, orange caps were 1" frag bought from MR Swaps and LIRA monthly meeting.

JBNY tested light intensity for Sanjay, but I don't know the result.

Open for visit tomorrow, Friday 6-11pm, check following link for details.

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum...-free-corals-attendees-lira-next-meeting.html

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1558236

James

 

[noodleman]

after reading the patient, i wonder can you get around it by marketing retrofit LED packs, since that doesn't come with a housing and by providing light intensity above the "0 to 1000 micro mols per square meter per second" point :scratchch

 

[jhale]

after reading the patient, i wonder can you get around it by marketing retrofit LED packs, since that doesn't come with a housing and by providing light intensity above the "0 to 1000 micro mols per square meter per second" point :scratchch

you could also sell the same lights for 'fresh water' systems. the patent only applies to 'marine environments' :shhh:

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

after reading the patient, i wonder can you get around it by marketing retrofit LED packs, since that doesn't come with a housing and by providing light intensity above the "0 to 1000 micro mols per square meter per second" point :scratchch

the application did not even specify what wavelength will succeed in the proposed use. I really don't understand how some one sign off this patent.




Tomorrow, I will apply a patent "Using computer as a source of happiness at home" I do not plan to manufacture computer, nor am I going to tell you why a comptuer will give your happiness at home. I am not even going to describe why I think computer will bring you happiness, nor what spec the computer must have in order to have happiness at home.
I am specifying the computer should be from 0 to 1000000000000000000 billions mips.
I am aware that others have used computer for informations.
I am also aware that people have used computer for entertainment
But no one else have used computer for happiness at home before.
:lol::iamwithst:lol:

 

[alrha]

i was always interested in the solaris, i particularly like its built-in controller and simplicity. would save me the need for a controller by my tank and a whole bunch of wires. i can get one now for real cheap (clearance) considering that there is really no warranty on it at this point. my main concern is reports that SPS do not color up as well under the solaris as they do under my MH.