open discussion on LFS!!!!

[Sean]

do you know that a zoo colony cost 20 bux and somtime 10 ,,selling price 70 ...
shripms are 9 or 8 bux ,if youbuy more its cheaper .they are 25 or more in the stores ,thats over 150% mark up ,as aplumber i dont even mark up that much on item ,,,nor do clothing store ..why should LFS ..cuz of supply and demand ,and ppl who dont know the hobby ,where would the LFS be if they didnt take advantage of those customers ,

Quality Quality Quality
yeah I can get cleaner shrimp for $9 but they're tiny like 1-1.5" and if I order 6 like 2 die from shipping now I paid over $13 each for them. Instead I order large ones for $15 then charge $30 thats my mark up the shrimp are guaranteed so if one comes in dead I get my money back. yes I give out deals if you buy a bunch of stuff

I charge $40 for huge Sri Lanka blood shrimp some people think thats expensive for blood shrimp but what are you comparing it to. usually small or medium sized ones from indo. not the same fish.

 

[Sean]

As far as online retailers, this is an issue with many industries and there was once a mainstram opinion that most "bricks and mortar" retailers would eventually go out of business as they have higher fixed expenses (rent, etc) that online retailers dont have. Well, seems like all these stores are still in business even though they have difficulty matching online prices. This may be due to a number of factors among them: immediate receipt of product (dont have to wait for shipping), ease of return (generally either than shipping back), relationship (online is usually impersonal), and the hand-on aspect (can see, touch, hold your product BEFORE you buy it). This value added warrants a price premium over online businesses.

ok, thats long enough for now.

Exactly alrha
I know that if I'm buying something I alway like to go to a place that if I have a problem I can bring it to a place or person and have it replaced or fixed.

 

[ShaunW]

Thank you Sean for your answers to my questions! I guess it just comes down to each store owners philosophy.

On that note, I really need to make a trip to your store!

 

[alrha]

Sean seems to be running the type of LFS we think to be the proper type. I have not been to the store yet (but should) but from the sound of him, he seems to be on the ball. just being on this site shows how much he cares.

 

[Sean]

Sean seems to be running the type of LFS we think to be the proper type. I have not been to the store yet (but should) but from the sound of him, he seems to be on the ball. just being on this site shows how much he cares.

Thanks

 

[Deanos]

Sean seems to be running the type of LFS we think to be the proper type. I have not been to the store yet (but should) but from the sound of him, he seems to be on the ball. just being on this site shows how much he cares.

I've only been to Sean's store on two occasions. But, both times I felt I was in a "Petsmart" with a "mom & pop" owner (this is a good thing btw). Knowing I was from MR.com, he made sure his staff treated me as such :icon16:. Even other customers (definite newbies) who came while I was there, were given answers they would have received here.

Two other stores with similar qualities would be NY Aquaria in Mamaroneck and Jawz in Elmsford. While their prices reflect the exclusivity of the neighborhood and quality of their livestock, the staff is both kind and knowledgeable.

One poor example of an LFS would be Exotic Pets in Yonkers :irked:. This LFS seems to have tons of storage space, but still charges more than stores in NYC on drygoods. And their coral prices border on obscene. Dying leather corals and browned out brown zoos :bigeyes2: cost more than acro colonies at Fishtown USA for example. The staff always seems to be in a hurry even when there is noone else in the store.

As this thread as shown, not all LFS are made the same. Just like there are great online vendors out there, there are some definite crappers too.

Dean

 

[spykes]

sean, i have XXL bloods from 1000 island, they had two there 1 year ago for 17 dollars, which i have bought, now last week i went to fishtown, they had XL bloods for 19 dollars, IMO if you order 50 like what fishtown does, you can still compensate for the lost, and since there is a demand on most part, all 50 should be sold less then a week, rarely i seen shrimps die in fishtown, it's their fish that doesnt make out so well. also premoum aquatics dont drop ship, they accually have stuff in stock as well as a store front, my friend is a block away from them in indiana. they dont specialize etheir, like glass canopies, vinyle tubing or salt, they are drygoods in general and live stock, full stock and nothing but quality. When they ship to me, they ship from premium aquatics in IN, and not like liveaquaria drop or transshipped. i hope you can see my Questioning and reasoning in this point of veiw; "why is there not more of other FS in general like premium aquatics?" I personally have never been to your store sean, i believe what deanos and others have said about your store, one of these days i will visit and make my own opinion about your place. I just believe it can be much better then what it could be, and yes Quality.

 

[Deanos]

i hope you can see my Questioning and reasoning in this point of veiw; "why is there not more of other FS in general like premium aquatics?"

I'd say the same reason there are not more online FS like Premium Aquatics. Not everyone can be on or near the top. For every company like PA, there may be 5 garbage dumps. For every quality LFS, there happen to be several New Worlds out there; especially here in NY.

To achieve excellence in a business, you need excellent management, staff, location, suppliers, etc. Any one of those items fall short, the entire company's image suffers.

 

[spykes]

there is like 0 PA in NY LOL and mostly close to NW

 

[Deanos]

there is like 0 PA in NY LOL and mostly close to NW

My point exactly....remember this thread? Shaun was actually excited :bigeyes2: about the LFS he visited there. One of the factors I mentioned was location :wink1:.

 

[jhale]

Sean I'm always interested in the economics of running retail business. In your case your are dealing with livestock that needs to be cared for so this makes it more of a challenge. you can't just stick your products on a shelf or showroom floor
How much of your day is spent taking care of the livestock and how much is spent running the business and trying to grow it?
I think if people look at it from this angle it's easier to see why you need to mark things up.
My retail experience comes from being a supplier. I know that when I sell one of my pieces to a store they are going to mark it up 100% - 200%. To cover rent in mid town or soho you have no choice. Like Albert said a while ago it's the nature of retail to get the highest price possible, of course this depends what your selling. relating this to the reef industry there are only a finite number of coral and fish, stores can get, and if everyone wants a acan, or a purple maxima then if I owned that store guess what you are not going to get it cheaply. I personally have no problem with stores charging as much as they can for products, if i think it's to high priced i won't buy it and i might even tell them that. what I do have a problem with are stores that mistreat the livestock, give out wrong info, or try to make sales based on peoples ignorance. I've been lucky and always shopped at excellent stores who were owned by people who care, that I will gladly pay a little more for.

and for those that wonder why there are not more private fish stores in NY, have you checked the rent prices lately? you would need to have a huge amount saved up to open your own store, and the return is not guaranteed. i doubt i would ever open a reef store in the city even if I had the money. if you ran the numbers you would see why NW is charging the prices they are. for the same amount of rent money you could open an ice cream franchise and make probably ten times as much money. and that's what it comes down to in NY. this city does not coddle businesses that do not do well, it eats them alive. look at the turn over of restaurants, they have a similar problem, they need to mark up there product, and always have fresh stock on hand. if people don't like your food, location etc, guess what you have about two months to make it then bam, your gone.

I have not been to Seans store either but would like to go, maybe we can get together and meet there some time? okay that's enough rambling for now I have to get back to work.

 

[marrone]

I'd say the same reason there are not more online FS like Premium Aquatics. Not everyone can be on or near the top. For every company like PA, there may be 5 garbage dumps. For every quality LFS, there happen to be several New Worlds out there; especially here in NY.

To achieve excellence in a business, you need excellent management, staff, location, suppliers, etc. Any one of those items fall short, the entire company's image suffers.

This was something that happen to Thatpetplace a # of years ago as they grow large and had to hire more people to run their mail order operations and they weren't that good and made alot of mistake. Order where sent out late and wrong this shipped, it took sometime to correct this problem and I know a # of people that stop doing business with them.

 

[marrone]

I think everyone also need to remember that the price a LFS pays for a fish or coral is not alway the same and will vary depending on the time of year. Some times the prices are very low as there are alot on the market of that item while later in the year the item isn't as available and the cost could be alot more. The same go for the size, what maybe a small now could be a large later on in the year. Prices are very subject to changing conditions and time of the year as well as quanity purchased.

Also you need to remember that alot of LFS have their corals and fish shipped in so there is usally a % of fish and corals that die before they even reach the LFS tanks. At NW the person that purchase the fish and coral told me that they have a 20% dead rate. Depending on what you getting shipped it could also be higher.

 

[jhale]

Also you need to remember that a lot of LFS have their corals and fish shipped in so there is usually a % of fish and corals that die before they even reach the LFS tanks. At NW the person that purchase the fish and coral told me that they have a 20% dead rate. Depending on what you getting shipped it could also be higher.

from our debacle ordering from LA and ET there was about a 50% death rate. that was horrible. that day i knew I never wanted to deal with ordering fish again. to quote on of my favorite movies, so much death what does one do.

Sean what is the percentage of fish and inverts that do not make it past the shipping process for you?

 

[DEEPWATER]

I totally agree. What are they doing? that everybody else isn't? They are still located in the USA, and even with shipping they are cheaper than local stores.

For exampe, I recently bought salt (Bioassay salt) to make 300 gallons. The salt costs $12.99 to make 50 gallons. I got 6-50gallon bags. Shipping cost for all- $50. Adding it up it cost less to have this shipped to me than buying it locally. WHY?????

i triple that ,,i bought salt(reef cystals ) from forster and smith ,,150 gal mix ,41 bux to my door ,,LFS 60 plus tax = 65 or bux saved 15 or so ,,,
they pay rent ,elec.storage.delivery .help ,ans so on and so on ,,,,,,

LSF lost my business ,,hope you guys take advantage of that sale ,,
http://www.drsfostersmith.com

 

[DEEPWATER]

Quality Quality Quality
yeah I can get cleaner shrimp for $9 but they're tiny like 1-1.5" and if I order 6 like 2 die from shipping now I paid over $13 each for them. Instead I order large ones for $15 then charge $30 thats my mark up the shrimp are guaranteed so if one comes in dead I get my money back. yes I give out deals if you buy a bunch of stuff

I charge $40 for huge Sri Lanka blood shrimp some people think thats expensive for blood shrimp but what are you comparing it to. usually small or medium sized ones from indo. not the same fish.

As far as quality you really cant say ,you never saw my tank in the store ,
BTW i had great stuff ,never had a prob with anything dying on me. if they did ,it came free the next order .when i sold shrimp for 20 bux(blood shrimp) ppl didnt buy 1 at a time (3 or 4)or more ,i ordered 50 at a time ,it was not hard to place them in tanks ,and really never had the chance to get them in ,at that price ,i sold plenty ,big or small ,not to mention they grow ,i have about 9 shrimp from when i had the store (partners)and still alive almost a yr now,some corals too, ,so quality is not a prob ,and frogspawns where 18 bux ,,you can ask some of the guys on here they saw my tank and traded colors ,,sure dont get me worng, i know lots of places that had bad stuff(Merit in nj WOW bad and expensive)if you looked at my prior post ,LFS use the same exuse you dont get the same quality ,It will died on you soon..,i know some of the in and out,unless you order direct from overseas ,you are getting it from Cali,FL etc.,and then you have the same quilty as others ,,,and LIA(long Island Aquatic) use medication in the tank as well ,(formaldihyde)(dont know if i spelled that right )..as did the store i invested in FishExpo ,thats quality Hell no ,,if they lived for 6 months that would be good ,,,and guess what Petland get fish from LIA as well.

sean this is not directed at you in anyway ,,,,,,,,,i liked your store ,and still waiting for my black sun polyps ,

 

[Sean]

sean, i have XXL bloods from 1000 island, they had two there 1 year ago for 17 dollars, which i have bought, now last week i went to fishtown, they had XL bloods for 19 dollars, IMO if you order 50 like what fishtown does, you can still compensate for the lost, and since there is a demand on most part, all 50 should be sold less then a week, rarely i seen shrimps die in fishtown, it's their fish that doesnt make out so well. also premoum aquatics dont drop ship, they accually have stuff in stock as well as a store front, my friend is a block away from them in indiana. they dont specialize etheir, like glass canopies, vinyle tubing or salt, they are drygoods in general and live stock, full stock and nothing but quality. When they ship to me, they ship from premium aquatics in IN, and not like liveaquaria drop or transshipped. i hope you can see my Questioning and reasoning in this point of veiw; "why is there not more of other FS in general like premium aquatics?" I personally have never been to your store sean, i believe what deanos and others have said about your store, one of these days i will visit and make my own opinion about your place. I just believe it can be much better then what it could be, and yes Quality.

are they from indo or sri lanka?
spyke I don't get the number of people these other store get I can't sell 50 blood shrimp in a week maybee a month if I'm lucky. I get 3-5 a week they sit around (maybee because they're $40) for two weeks then I order more. They cost me $20 each so I can't sell them for less then I pay. I don't like to trans-ship cause you have to deal with alot of death and disease (Quality). I buy all of my fish from wholesales cause they deal with all that crap and if yellow tangs are full of ich then I simply don't buy them. the fish at my shop aren't sick and none of the fish I get in my shop come in sick and I know they're healthy and eating cause I make my wholesaler hold them for a week. Yeah I know I pay for it but it's a luxury I think people would appreciate.
As far as premium aquatics don't know much about them. any comments acropora?

 

[Sean]

Sean I'm always interested in the economics of running retail business. In your case your are dealing with livestock that needs to be cared for so this makes it more of a challenge. you can't just stick your products on a shelf or showroom floor
How much of your day is spent taking care of the livestock and how much is spent running the business and trying to grow it?
I think if people look at it from this angle it's easier to see why you need to mark things up.
My retail experience comes from being a supplier. I know that when I sell one of my pieces to a store they are going to mark it up 100% - 200%. To cover rent in mid town or soho you have no choice. Like Albert said a while ago it's the nature of retail to get the highest price possible, of course this depends what your selling. relating this to the reef industry there are only a finite number of coral and fish, stores can get, and if everyone wants a acan, or a purple maxima then if I owned that store guess what you are not going to get it cheaply. I personally have no problem with stores charging as much as they can for products, if i think it's to high priced i won't buy it and i might even tell them that. what I do have a problem with are stores that mistreat the livestock, give out wrong info, or try to make sales based on peoples ignorance. I've been lucky and always shopped at excellent stores who were owned by people who care, that I will gladly pay a little more for.

and for those that wonder why there are not more private fish stores in NY, have you checked the rent prices lately? you would need to have a huge amount saved up to open your own store, and the return is not guaranteed. i doubt i would ever open a reef store in the city even if I had the money. if you ran the numbers you would see why NW is charging the prices they are. for the same amount of rent money you could open an ice cream franchise and make probably ten times as much money. and that's what it comes down to in NY. this city does not coddle businesses that do not do well, it eats them alive. look at the turn over of restaurants, they have a similar problem, they need to mark up there product, and always have fresh stock on hand. if people don't like your food, location etc, guess what you have about two months to make it then bam, your gone.

I have not been to Seans store either but would like to go, maybe we can get together and meet there some time? okay that's enough rambling for now I have to get back to work.

I have at least two people in the store at all times tending to fish and customers at least 5 hours a day are spent cleaning water changes feeding and everything else.

just so you know I've spent over $60,000 on my new shop and I already had all the tank and filters. oh yeah I'm not done with construction yet and I don't have a real sign outside. I estimate I have another 30,000 to spend (not including stocking the store). Oh yah my electric bill is more then most peoples rent.

 

[Sean]

Also you need to remember that alot of LFS have their corals and fish shipped in so there is usally a % of fish and corals that die before they even reach the LFS tanks. At NW the person that purchase the fish and coral told me that they have a 20% dead rate. Depending on what you getting shipped it could also be higher.

This is why I don't like to ship corals I don't handle death to well.

 

[Sean]

from our debacle ordering from LA and ET there was about a 50% death rate. that was horrible. that day i knew I never wanted to deal with ordering fish again. to quote on of my favorite movies, so much death what does one do.

Sean what is the percentage of fish and inverts that do not make it past the shipping process for you?

My losses are far and few and I'm not saying that to make myself look good.
my death toll today
freshwater fish 12 doa-found 2 more
saltwater 0-a naso tang doesn't look good will prob. be dead tom. mornning
coral 0
no joke