open discussion on LFS!!!!

[DEEPWATER]

Hey guys

I have been a shopper ,in business,and a hobbyist for about over a year now with saltwater fish and corals.LFS ive notice are not so nice to there customers who we yet support there big house and nice cars with this expensive hobby. Ive also notice most LFS either have very bad fish/corals,lack the knowledge of this hobby,Have no selection on live or dry goods.The ones that do know. are either nasty ppl who think they know it all,or want to rip us a new a--whole on prices.
Today (8-20-05) I went to the city to New World Aquarium, and WOW when you guy said it was pricey ,I said how bad could it be! I didnt Believe the prices for some of the corals ,80 bux for a zoo colony that where not so nice ,Clams 3 inch are 110 bux.Coco worm 70 bux ,just a quick view on what expensive is .IM not saying that they didnt have nice corals (they did ,very nice) but i bought something nicer for less money. I then went to a LSF in brklyn who i knew had a zoo colony from last week .Walked out with the coral for 45 bux almost half of the city store .Just shop around for your stuff,Dont just buy what you see first.

Last year i went into business with a LFS in Brklyn.Oh boy what a mistake.The thing they would do and tell the customers.They would sell a guy 6 big saltwater fish at one time ,The poor guy came back a week later .His fish died on him ,(i wonder why ) I couldnt say anything to this man i had lots of money invested at the time and was new to his place(it was a working fish store already)they sold a guy a Dolphin pump for 2000 bux he was rich and stupid to the hobby(no reason to do that to anyone)IM no longer with this store THK G-D,FOR HIM ...I got out of that ,(HE also tried to screw me out of 10000 but that didnt happen ,the whole time i went partners with him i had my eyes open)I got all my money back so its cool.I also went to some of the customers(that got the 1.2) and told them what they did ,most got money back ,others got free fish ect...
I notice that this site has a a rating for LFS but no one has entered any ratings. I think and i see you guys act/are like family .It would be cool to hear other ppls experiances with LFS.To give us the heads up ,save us a trip .time ,and the headache.
Thx Ronen

 

[spykes]

ronen, it's normal, this is a everyday life thing. Everyone has their main income in this hobby, we do not mess around when it comes to our carrers. If a car salesman suddenly received a bad car, he or she will sell it first, they cannot loose their main income. Their families depend on their income, if all of us hobbiest become store owners, we cannot compete with a great sales man. Do you really think every single peice of livestock they sell will get a good home? i know for a fact my LFS has many saltwater customers which is not a member of manhattan reef or knowledgeable. a kid screams nemo and there is a sale. somewhere in manhattan will have a higher price then brooklyn, have you seen any store out compete internet stores? i dont think so, unless you are like fishtown or absolute fish directly ordering from the importers. i dont think we can get a better price then that. Fishtown has to order 200 purple tangs to get a 29 dollar special, while new world orderes like 1-3 at 79.99 retail price. wholesalers who buy from importers need to eat too.

But i have to agree with you, one LFS knowledgeable in the city area with a decent price will get alot more support from our members.

 

[marrone]

Ronen

You need to remember that LFS are in business and while some are better than others they are in business to make money. While some do make alot of money alot of others don't and the owner put in alot of time, most are hobbyist so they don't mine what they're doing because they like it. Also alot of these stores are at the mercy of who they hire, some have alot of exprecience other less but they're all looking to do one thing and that is sell. It would be great to find places that would give advise out to hobbists and tell them not to buy this or that, and some places do, but remember there setup for business and they're looking to sell you this just like any other business. Also the more things go wrong the more they can sell you to correct the problem.

I've seen a # of rich people have fish die and just buy more, to color and have fish in tank, without a problem on price or if the fish is going to last anyway. The store are going to sell whatever these people want because they're going to either get it from them or some one else and in the long run these people will mostly likely more on, this is just something to have in their house.

As for NW prices, well this is Manhattan and you must expect to pay more than in Queens or Brooklyn you just need to use your judgement and check around on prices. Let face it people just starting out usally pay more because they just don't no better, I know I did until I found the mail order places in the magazines.

I don't if the rating on the LFS and Web site where carried over when the site was updated by people do post about their expreinces in the formums and all the LFS have there good and bad points.

Michael

 

[jhale]

that story about the pump is crazy.
New World is known for their high prices, and most people here will use them to buy dry goods in an emergency only.
on the old site there were a bunch of written reviews, they may have disappeared in the change over to the new site.
your right if anyone knows of a decent lfs it would be great to share that experience, they are few and far between in NY at least in manhattan. most of my fish have come from other hobbyists or I ordered them from live aquaria, which I could not recommend due to a high death rate in their shipping.

 

[marrone]

I wouldn't recommend Live Aquaria to anyone, for fish or corals. Everything that I've order from them has either died or parts has died over a short period of time.

 

[joseney21]

maybe we should volunteer sometimes and act as newbie mystery shoppers and see what they would recommend without turning us away and then post a rating.reason i say that is because i know when i go to an lfs i know what i'm looking for so i get no bull sh!t, but if you appear to be an innocent newbie you might get a different reaction.i too think we should post our experiences with lfs in the area, you know make that lfs rating useful.

i usually have good experiences with reef encounter, i remember them turning me down for some stuff when i was first starting out, they were actually trying to keep my newbie bug under control.

 

[delv]

Aquatic Creations is good stuff....nice guys, nice displays, decent selection. They also let me smoke and drink in their store...
Fishtown is good too....very, very cheap. Not much on information or support (or personal hygene)...I like to buy livestock out of the bag there....try to avoid their acclimation if possible...
Joe at North East Aquatics is excellent....delivers for free (with minimum purchase), great prices, really knows his stuff....plus he's a sponsor of Manhattan Reefs...Many, many pieces from my tank are due to him...

New World is a joke...I've gotten close to fighting people in that place...don't go there anymore...

d.

 

[herman]

The fact of the matter is that in whatever business markups are usually quite high. For example I can get you any watch or jewlery at least 50~70% off retail. The LFS industry is no different. There are alot of people to pay alot of overheads. Take NWA - yes they are crazy expensive, but part of that has something to do with their location also. Rent, electric(have you ever counted all the halides or even seen the size of their skimmers motors pumps etc. Even we complain about the high costs. On top of that they also have to deal with fish & coral loss. Basically all costs get pushed off to the customer. And as long as there is someone willing to pay.... Well you get the picture.
On the otherhand I went to petland on 72nd and there is this guy named Hector. Super knowlegeable, tells you what you can or shouldnt buy, spends hours talking and educating you> That store lost a couple hundred dollars from me alone because he told me not to buy something. Good for me but bad for petland. What can you do - catch 22!
As for me, I am just very thankful for this website and all of the people on it. I see alot, learn alot and as jhale said trade alot and help alot.

 

[marrone]

maybe we should volunteer sometimes and act as newbie mystery shoppers and see what they would recommend without turning us away and then post a rating.reason i say that is because i know when i go to an lfs i know what i'm looking for so i get no bull sh!t, but if you appear to be an innocent newbie you might get a different reaction.i too think we should post our experiences with lfs in the area, you know make that lfs rating useful.

Alot of times when I go into a store for the first time I ask questions to the staff ,as if I'm just starting out, to see what their answer will be. From there I get an understanding if they know what they're taking about and if they'll try and sell me anything.

 

[jhale]

The fact of the matter is that in whatever business markups are usually quite high. For example I can get you any watch or jewlery at least 50~70% off retail.

now that's just as good as knowing of a great LFS, can I pm you when I want to get a new watch?

 

[herman]

any time jonathan

 

[Dmitry]

Hector at the 72nd st. Petland is cool; I told him about this site once, so he might be lurking.

As far as New World, their Corals are, indeed, very expensive. But their fish prices are Manhattan-competitive. And as I've mentioned in other threads (and I posted a review for it some time ago) so far all the livestock I've purchased from them has thrived (knock on wood!) When I was getting my very first fish I brought my tank water to be tested and one of the guys there tested it, asked me all kinds of questions about how much I knew, and then told me I could get one fish. Just one fish, unless I wanted a pair of Clowns. He wouldn't have sold me more than that even if I insisted. He then - unasked - fed the Clowns tank with Cyclop-eeze to show me how much they love the stuff and so I could see who was eating. I asked him about what kind of fish I could keep in a 29 (I really wanted a Tang), but he said "not for that size tank." I go back to that same guy everytime I go to shop; I really gotta ask his name one of these days!

Not all mark-ups are that high. I work for a major record store in the city and our mark-up on CDs is only about 30-35%.

 

[DEEPWATER]

I know as an exowner the prices on corals and the shipping ,mark ups on fish and coral are more then 50% more like 65 to sometime over 100%,Depending how much you know and really want the Item.
some of the LFS i walk into i dont even talk to the guys ,just look at the fish 1st to see how they look ,if that gos well ,then i look at the reef tanks.
my fish buying days are over ,I have plenty of small fish and now just look at the reef tanks for corals .

 

[SlamaJama]

well i was thr yesterday, thr prices R STEAP. some nice selections but spensive

 

[Doc]

We'll as one of those clueless newbies, I've had my set of drawbacks. I walked in & dropped whatever money they wanted and got a ton of fish initially. My wife eventually learned some rules and curbed my bug, but it was hard. Whenever you start out, you are going to be clueless and possibly spend more than you should. Part of the game. It's in forums like this that you can get an unbiased opinion. Problem is that when you're new, you don't know about these forums. do we want to possibly leave a poster or cards at stores that we know to be good to increase awareness and information of Manhattanreefs.com? might be a good idea.

Doc

PS I also agree we should update the store and website info on the new database

 

[DEEPWATER]

We'll as one of those clueless newbies, I've had my set of drawbacks. I walked in & dropped whatever money they wanted and got a ton of fish initially. My wife eventually learned some rules and curbed my bug, but it was hard. Whenever you start out, you are going to be clueless and possibly spend more than you should. Part of the game. It's in forums like this that you can get an unbiased opinion. Problem is that when you're new, you don't know about these forums. do we want to possibly leave a poster or cards at stores that we know to be good to increase awareness and information of Manhattanreefs.com? might be a good idea.

Doc

PS I also agree we should update the store and website info on the new database

i agree ,as a group looking out for eachother ,we should rate store ,tell eachother where and where not to go .if there are any sales we know of ,thing like tht ,it could help all of us in the long run .money and problem wise

 

[jawwad2004]

Dont worry Doc, I was in the same position as you! My wallet was raped by those LFS guys, especially the ^%&$#@(*^ at Northern Aquarium Pets in Flushing Queens. He sold me a ton of fish like half way during my ammonia cycle. Dude was selling me angles, lionfish, tangs, all the expensive stuff, which basically cycled the tank for me, SOB coulda just told me to use cocktail shrimp, but noooooooo. Personally, no matter how knowledgable these guys are at the LFS, I dont take there word until I do the reserach myself (online articles, forums) and then invest. My hatred for LFS people has grown so intense, that everytime I meet a newbie, I have to brainwash them into not buying stuff from them, and telling them to post there requests on MR, or check some online store, lol. (arghhhhhhh im gettin so heated just thinking about those days!)

 

[Dmitry]

On-line retailers are running a business too. One just doesn't have the option of speaking to them one-on-one. I've ordered dry goods on-line, but can't imagine getting livestock that way.

 

[DEEPWATER]

well guys ,i have desided to get a 40 gal tank(not a big tank ,but a start) and start selling some stuff,,shrimps ,zoos.clams,snails and crabs ,maybe some star fish ,,i will look into to starting this ands see how it gos . maybe i can try to help you guys save on these things since they are going for 25 or more a shrimp,tell me what you guys think ,will ppl buy from me ,,depending on shipping and prices ,(i think will i sell for 15 to 20 for fire shrimp,about 15 for cleaners .zoos if i rememeber i was selling for 30 bux for nice color zoos ,clams i was selling for 70 for 1st grade crocea)4 inch ,,but i will take me about 2 week to get going ,,.i wwill get intouch wiht my wholesalers in cali .and reopen my corp..wish me luck ,
now i need to find someone to build me a tank 21 w x 21L x14h..(ofcousre i will pay them ,if the price is right )thats the space i have to put a tank for now . is that to small for a tank.how many gal does that come out to ?

 

[spykes]

that's a 27 gallon tank,