Killerdrgn
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- Park Ridge, NJ
Hey cool beans! So everything seems to be doing fine now that you cleaned up the sump.
Need Expert Advice on Nitrates & Phosphates
- Thread starter Domboski
- Start date
No. Yes. Well, yes and no. Depends on other means used to remove proteins before hitting the reactor (reusable items like filter socks/skimming), type of skimmer :biggrin:, location of the feed pump for the PO4 reactor and other variables.
I mention earlier in the thread Fred and his gravity fed skimmer thread. The nastiest water is within the first few inches, making overflows a fantastic waste removal vehicle.
So if you are drawing water to feed the phosban reactor from the chamber of your sump where the water overflows into with no other protection, then yes, the same thing will happen.
If you put reusable protection in there (filter socks and skimmers) with the phosban reactor in the second or last chamber, then you will probably find yourself getting more use out of the Poly Pad (measured in weeks rather than days) in the reactor as well as find it will take in more NO3 and PO4. Keep in mind that poly pads do not adsorb tremendous amounts of NO3 or PO4, but still a great product.
I only mentioned all of this because poly pads get expensive when replacing them every few days. Filter socks (washable) and emptying skimmer cups is cheap.
Did I make any sense?
- Location
- Staten Island
Natureef Denitrifier.... Works for me... with the phosphate option of course.... Good skimmer also..
Dom, how clean do you really want that water with all those gorgonians? I'd like anyone with experience with them to chime in on that one. Do you think my technique of aggressive nutrient addition followed by even more aggressive removal would work for them? My understanding is also that people have used xenias in the past for nutrient removal.
- Location
- Montclair, NJ
That's a good question. I have recently become dedicated to spot feeding all of my gorgs because of the change in water params and the newest addition of a filter feeder Gorg. I was / am definately concerned with that.
The skimmer change and the sump cleanup have made a tremendous difference. I have almost no algae growth and the only growth I have is green in some small patches which I am fine with. The water params have not been tested recently but I am sure nitrates and phosphates are still high but have been toned down to much more managable levels. I'm waiting to see what the Gorgs do with the current params and spot feeding to decide whether or not to take additional steps to cut down the levels of Nitrate and Phosphates. Kathy is checking my Phosphates tonight with a hanna meter but I feel they are probably still high.
Now that the Xenias are back to form and seem to be growing again, I'm sure they are going to begin taking over the tank again. I guess I got what I wished for :Yikes:. We'll see what effect they have on the nutrient levels.
I read your thread a while ago and found it very interesting. I think it makes sense. It may be something I try the next time I have a week off from work to ensure I have time to experiement and do water changes. Most of the gorgs in that tank are just about a year old with the exception of three (I have 11 right now). This is a pick of the one I just added. This can be a challenging Gorg to care for but I'm hoping in a smaller tank (72 gallon) with aggressive spot feeding proves to be successful. It has worked with many others thus far.
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- Location
- Montclair, NJ
One other update I forgot to mention is that all of my snails and sea slugs have been laying eggs out of control. I'm not sure what to make of this. I know sea slugs will lay eggs when stressed but I haven't noticed any change of behavior other than the egg laying. I fed them red macro algae and they ate a ton of it as usual. I'm hoping the better water quality is the trigger in the mass egg laying.
- Location
- Montclair, NJ
For those of you following along, the thread Chris referenced is located here (correct me if I am wrong Chris 
). Make sure you read the whole discussion as it is quite interesting.
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/coral-farming/22217-italian-blue-coral-method.html
). Make sure you read the whole discussion as it is quite interesting.http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/coral-farming/22217-italian-blue-coral-method.html
Yes, that's it. I actually ended up doing it for quite some time and I was very happy with the results. But I still stick to the fact that food does you no good if water quality is bad. I too really enjoyed the discussion. I wish I posted there again when I decided to continue.
Beautiful gorgo.
As for your snails egg laying, mine did the same after I removed my fuge and rocks from my first chamber in favor of filter socks. What I say here are opinions. I can back some of it up:
Your PO4 is lower than you think. When I did it, I tested with a Hanna before I made my improvements. I dropped from 1.36 to .32 within a day. Not acceptable levels, but a pretty quick drop. During that drop, my snails spawned like crazy. You might remember the thread I started for some ID help on these baby snails I was finding by the dozen in my filter socks. So my guess is that either the quick drop caused such a shift that a survival instinct kicked in with them and they wanted to spawn for survival (more snails, more chances something survives a big shift) or that water got better and became more acceptable for them to spawn. My tank was spawning snails and pods up to my breakdown.
Beautiful gorgo.
As for your snails egg laying, mine did the same after I removed my fuge and rocks from my first chamber in favor of filter socks. What I say here are opinions. I can back some of it up:
Your PO4 is lower than you think. When I did it, I tested with a Hanna before I made my improvements. I dropped from 1.36 to .32 within a day. Not acceptable levels, but a pretty quick drop. During that drop, my snails spawned like crazy. You might remember the thread I started for some ID help on these baby snails I was finding by the dozen in my filter socks. So my guess is that either the quick drop caused such a shift that a survival instinct kicked in with them and they wanted to spawn for survival (more snails, more chances something survives a big shift) or that water got better and became more acceptable for them to spawn. My tank was spawning snails and pods up to my breakdown.
- Location
- Upper East Side
- Location
- Old Bethpage
Head spinning!!!!
All I can say about this thread is,....O....M...G!!!! That was some intense reading. I have to say I am thoughly confused with what causes/gets rid of Nitrates, Phosphates, test kits etc. I did learn some but still, I am confused with what I've previously read on other threads and what has been told to me by different LFS's. I can be quite sickening and It gave me dementia. This hobby is not for the faint hearted!!!
All I can say about this thread is,....O....M...G!!!! That was some intense reading. I have to say I am thoughly confused with what causes/gets rid of Nitrates, Phosphates, test kits etc. I did learn some but still, I am confused with what I've previously read on other threads and what has been told to me by different LFS's. I can be quite sickening and It gave me dementia. This hobby is not for the faint hearted!!!
- Location
- Montclair, NJ
Hang in there :lol_large. Post your questions here and the members will answer them the best they can. It is good your doing the research and I can understand the confusion. I have been quite perplexed myself! This thread has helped me quite a bit as I knocked my phosphates way down (but still have some work to do).
What causes Nitrates & Phosphates? Excess Nutrients in your system. Each system has an equilibrium of nutrients it can export. When you exceed that equilibrium, you'll be left with an excess of nutrients which raises the level of nitrates and phosphates (in really bad situations ammonia and nitrites will be elevated). Nutrients are bioorganics such as fish excrement, fish food and dead animals. The ype of water and certain salt mixes can contribute. Even algae in your system dying off can cause spikes in nitrates and phosphates.
How to minimize Nitrates & Phosphates? There is a lot of answers for this question depending on your system. Adding live rock and sand can increase the natural removal of nitrates and phosphates in your system. An appropriate protein skimmer can help remove biorganics before they are transformed into nitrates and phosphates. Careful consideration of the food used and how much you add to your system can help. Minimizing the number of livestock in your system. Try to aquascape in a way that minimizes traps for detritus.
These are some of the basics but definately there is a lot more to consider. Since you read this thread, for my system it was definitely MY refugium. I emphasize "my" because a lot of people have success with fuges but mine just didn't work with my system.
I hope this is a good start for you but please post your questions so some of the other more advanced reef aquarist can provide feedback for you.
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- Location
- Old Bethpage
Thanks...will do!!!
- Location
- Montclair, NJ
Glad it all worked out for you, Dom. I broke down my 40L & basically gave up beacuse of the problems I was having when I installed my fuge.
Now run down to Petland & get a background!
LOL. Thanks! I am debating introducing cured live rock to the sump. I'm waiting to see what the water params are next weekend since I just modified the skimmer.
- Location
- Upper East Side
You know, it's funny but I didn't even notice you that you don't have a background on your tank until I was looking at Jon's pictures.
- Location
- Montclair, NJ
I was hoping to grow coralline over the back. That didn't pan out. LOL
I want to have some sort of natural background. I'm hoping the polyps I got from you will do the job.
I want to have some sort of natural background. I'm hoping the polyps I got from you will do the job.
- Location
- Upper East Side
Don't give up on the coraline! Could still happen.
Ask Jonathan about when he decided to grow anthelia all over the floor of his tank. :lol2:
After reading this thread I am totally confused! I'll be setting up a 40 breeder very soon with a 40 gallon sump that has a large fuge in it..I intend to get about 50 to 60 LBS of live rock to start. Now the question is what do I put in the fuge besides a skimmer and phosban reactor? Sand?? No sand?? Live rock?? no live rock? Cheato?? no cheato? So many conflicting opinions here.. I want to do it right the first time, any input would be great!! Thanxx Joey
For the record, my mistake was adding live rock rubble to my fuge, rock that was sitting dry in a bucket for about a year. Added new sand & the rubble from the days when I used tap water and a 24hr light source & BAM! cyano & algae problems galore.
That coupled with the fact that chaeto can act as a filter floss & trap a lot of detritus. It wasn't pretty.
That coupled with the fact that chaeto can act as a filter floss & trap a lot of detritus. It wasn't pretty.
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