Good Bye, I can no longer be a member of Reefs.org

[Ben1]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

If you really want to save the reefs, wouldn't it be wiser to start a petition or lobby than to pump more money into the reef trade and contribute to the damage?

Or how about starting a tank in a public place containing all tank raised corals and aquacultured live rock, along with tank raised fish. Then leaving a summery of the tank explaining how none of these animals depleated the reef in any way, and possibly one day can be used to restock extinct corals in the wild. JMO

 

[Anonymous]

Here we go again blaming "Big Buisness". You are not aware of Mary's buisness practices. She may be very conscientious. She has a great point about having the chance to talk/question a wholesaler/importer. It is obvious that you could ask her questions about the collection of marine species.

You act like a buisness person shouldn't be able to participate in a BB about their buisness. What better way is there to get info about things? Don't you agree it is better from the horses mouth rather than heresay?

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this arrangement.

Good Luck Mary,

God Bless Reefs.org

 

[Anonymous]

Good by and have a good life.

 

[Anonymous]

Fishaholic, Olgakurt and others,

I sympathize with your point of view and will miss each of your input to the forums if it comes to that. Based on what I'm seeing at the importer forum I feel that your proposed walkout of reefs.org might be at the time when your insights are most needed. What I'm perceiving is that people are seriously and critically questioning what is going on at the collection and import level.

I'd hate to see you good folks leave just as you're beginning to win the debate...

 

[Bomber]

"Goodbye and thanks for all the fish"

As long as the world's population continues to grow, the oceans will be farmed. Laying blame on one small segment of that only shows a severe case of near sightedness.

The solution is not banning different forms of farming. The solution is having a healthy ocean that can be farmed more.

If you want to be constructive, start considering the different forms of pollution (land, population, and ocean based) that are restricting these.


Jerel

 

[newreefman1]

It seems for a post that seems to be a goodbye, its more like either a begging thread, a flame war, or explanations on what is going on....all of which it seems that fishaholic isnt responding too anyways with any regard.

Bringing an importer to a board is a great idea and i find it hard to belive that you have never purchased anything from an importer. You have. To condemn their practices as a whole makes you ignorant. Why dont you segregate the BAD wholesalers, and try to do something about them while letting the legit importers continue their business. There is no trade without the larger wholesalers cause without them YOUR LFS doesnt exist (in 99.9% of cases).

Best of luck. Theres alot of boards out there, but your arguement is ridiculous as a reason for leaving. Its a free country though and GOD Bless the US for that.

Adios.
Jason.

 

[sawcjack00]

Bomber...It's

"So Long and Thanks for All the Fish"

Douglas Adams was a great man.

I think Dave should stay, because I like to read posts where people argue and flame. It entertains me to no end. I don't like to flame anyone myself (except Kirtis) so I flame vicariously through others. I do think it's funny that Dave made his statement of not being around to read this thread, yet he's still commenting. See that's entertaining!

 

[Anonymous]

Just to keep the discusion on a somewhat fair track this is what I posted

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>You see I do not believe that importers should be looked at as bad because most of them are very legitimate business owners who live by a sense of moral right. History has shown that when importers are allowed to be an integral part of the animal trade that they conduct the buying and selling of animals in, sooner or later it will end in a devastating loss of that species of animals.

Reefs.orgs decision to open a forum and have it moderated by an importer is a breach of all that I have spent time in the conservation of endangered animals.

You see Mary Middlebrook may be a swell person but when any animal trade organization begins to structure itself with Importers in a position of influence it may not be Mary but history will repeat itself and I will not be a part of it.<hr></blockquote>

I find it amusing I keep coming back too

I guess I just like being flamed, I will go to The Resturaunt at the End of the Galaxy as soon as this thread winds down

 

[95galReef]

Here's an Idea.... Why doesn't Mary post a list of Species she's importing that are hard to keep that beginners/all of us should stay away from. That will prove is there a confict of interest here or not.

 

[kazzoo]

I have been absent from this board for a few months, decided to check in just to see what is up, and this thread catches my eye.

If he does not wish to participate, fine. It is a free country and he can do what he wants. However, as was posted by a couple of people, I suspect his ego won't let him avoid this thread he has started. There have been a number of ego stroking responses that I'm sure he'll like to read. There have also been a few on the other side.

When I read his opening post, I wondered how long it would be before he responded to what others were saying. Sure enough he did respond, indicating he was indeed reading this thread just like he probably is now, trying to see how many have chosen sides.

He has made an effort to make two camps, for or against his viewpoint...kind of like Bush did with terrorists, although you can insert whomever you would like for the good guys and bad guys.

Just walk away man, walk away!

 

[kazzoo]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bomber:
<strong>"Goodbye and thanks for all the fish"

As long as the world's population continues to grow, the oceans will be farmed. Laying blame on one small segment of that only shows a severe case of near sightedness.

The solution is not banning different forms of farming. The solution is having a healthy ocean that can be farmed more.

If you want to be constructive, start considering the different forms of pollution (land, population, and ocean based) that are restricting these.


Jerel

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bomber,

Can you legally put that NOAA emblem on your posts? You might want to be careful about that.

 

[Bomber]

Yes I can

ROTFL

 

[kazzoo]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bomber:
<strong>Yes I can

ROTFL</strong><hr></blockquote>

Jerel,

I know that when I worked with NOAA in Charleston, SC, we had to place standard disclaimers on publications and presentations made at professional society meetings stating that the contained material did not necessarily reflect the views of NOAA. Now I am with the EPA and I suspect it is the same.

 

[pathos]

Dave, stop whining and get in the ring and throw some punches. If you'd only put half as much emphasis on your ego and twice as much on your actions...

 

[Bomber]

ROTFLMAO

I would have to turn myself into myself and dish out my own punishment.

Don't worry, I'm fine.

Jerel

 

[Anonymous]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> Bomber,

Can you legally put that NOAA emblem on your posts? You might want to be careful about that.

<hr></blockquote>

heh heh heh heh heh...........

 

[Jrsydevi1]

Just my 2 cents..

Dave.. you and I have knocked heads in the sump on non-reef-related issues, but I've always found your reef-related posts to be responsible and informative.

If you and the other concientious posters leave in protest, who will remain to educate the less informed enthusiasts?

If the vast number of casual hobbyists hear only the "other" side of the story.. that can only do even more harm to the very cause that you obviously hold dear...no?

Don't turn away in the face of philosophical or ethical adversity/diversity.. Stay and stand tall for what you feel is right, man. This, more than ever, should be your battleground. You'll never change the minds of the importers, but you damn well may change the minds of their customers.

 

[Anonymous]

Can someone explain to me how an importer with the hobby's best interest as well as the health and well-being of the animals in mind can be considered the enemy? After all if the hobby goes under so does all the importers.

Glenn

 

[naesco]

Rover
the answer to the question is simple.
Anyone who derives their income from the industry such as an importer or LFS owner or worker such as yourself (I beleive), has, a POTENTIAL conflict of interest. The less they have to sell the less money they make pure and simple.

The new industy forum on this board has taken the first step to agreement in defining no import species.
Blue ringed octopus which are deadly to man should not be imported.
The second group is obligate feeders which is presently being defined in detail. Obligates (fish and coral with special dietary needs) will no doubt include most butterflies, wrasse such as cleaners, leopards, flashers, tilefish, filefish, ribbon eels, batfish, parrotfish a few angels such as the popular rock beauty, Moorish Idol and IMO the clown tang. (Please see John Tullocks book Natural reef Aquariums.)
Once we have agreement as to the list we will approach the industry and government to enact import bans on the species on the list. Contentious species like the powder blue tang, most anenome should be left to a later date.
Mary is in the industry and appears to be receptive to discussing this and that is positive. Hopefully industry people like yourself and others who may be on the equipment side but read these boards will also join in the cause.
I will repeat, Dave is a valued reefer to be involved in this together with everyone else who has an interest.
See you in the industry foum

 

[loosbrew]

look slike im back to being the odd duck. eh, se la vie...good luck dude, you defintely have your heart in the right place...i hope.

loosbrew