Good Bye, I can no longer be a member of Reefs.org

[Green Lantern]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by naesco:
<strong>Come on fellas.
Where is your manners?
Dave has contributed 1500 posts to this board. He has helped numerous reefers with their problems.</strong><hr></blockquote>

First off 1500 posts in six months means he has a lot of information or a lot of time, possibly both. Before I mourn the loss of a member that has been rude countless times while posting their opinion, I'd like to know what qualifications and experience they have in the hobby. I don't read all the posts but I have a feeling dave is new to the hobby. Just a guess but I'll except my information and advice from guys that have been running a tank for some real time. You know, guys with more than opinions, guys that have experience.

 

[FishHead1]

 

[danmhippo]

Well, believe it or not, but I truly think Dave will, and actually still is lurking around reefs.org. He doesn't REAAAAAAAAALY want to leave, yet. I believe he wants to see what comes about for the new forum.

Dave, why not reincarnate! Let your true voice be heard!

 

[Anonymous]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by danmhippo:
<strong>Dave, why not reincarnate! Let your true voice be heard!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I am kinda stuck because I do not beleive the ideology that the People who administrate this board and what I feel so strongly about the preservation of species could co-exist. I would not post under a new name though, I think most here are very good at smelling a rat. If John could never pull it off with all his personalities, I know I can not.

Most likely after this thread runs its coarse I will stop. I do not feel right in not answering what people are asking.

I will also miss the way Troy flames me on the board but speaks to me in very even handed manner when he e-mails me. If he has formed such a strong opinion of my demeaner he has surely read many of my "rookie" posts and understands my lack of knowledge is due to having 7 tanks in my house and participating in Reef keeping for much shorter time than all the years I have kept both fresh and saltwater. Yes I will miss Troy.

 

[Green Lantern]

I think I have kept all my responses or inquiries directed at you civil. Just seems like every time I click on a thread you are involved in it leaves a bad feeling. This thread is no exception. Like you said in an earlier thread, I'm just stating my opinion, if you don't like it I can't help you. I honestly had no idea you had years of experience. All that I see on your sight is a gold fish bowl and a new tank. You again have my apologies.

 

[ChaoticReefer]

If these people want to leave because of a lame excuse, let them. They are just taking coward way out, instead of staying and fighting for what they think is right. They are blowing this way out of portion. They don't even know what this forum was made for.

You are the weakest link, good bye!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Troy

I have never finished building my site and stopped thinking about it but if it makes you happy I will e-mail you some pics.

 

[clyde]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fishaholic:
<strong>I
I am not asking anyone to do anything. I just gave the reason I will not be a part of this board.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

you said you're leaving, yet you've made 4 more posts since you said this.

FYI this post is getting NO WHERE.

we got a new moderator. so what.

they cant do jack****, cept close - ban, or whatever nothing more.

and its nice having someone FROM the hobby inside which can tell us if we're really wrong on something or not, but a moderator moderates, not control.

 

[Anonymous]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by clyde:
<strong>and its nice having someone FROM the hobby inside which can tell us if we're really wrong on something or not,</strong><hr></blockquote>

I am kinda enjoying being flamed by people who need to have somone else do their thinking.

I do think this gets to the heart of it though. The conflict of intrest. In this case someone would want a importer of exotic fish advising them about a species of fish. You see the more rare a fish, the more an importer makes in bringing it in. In doing soo the importer makes moe money off one fish than they can of a thousand other fish that are not rare. It therefore makes it more profitable to deal in species that will be driven to extinction.

Thus gross conflict of intrest.

 

[TWT5011]

Ok folks, I have to say something. I am fairly new on Reefs.org and I seldom reply to any discussions here... I suppose I should, but I’m more of a BB voyeur right now. I very much enjoy this vehicle of information. It provides tons of good and bad comments and experiences that we all can share and learn from. I learn something new everyday about this hobby. What I’ve noticed from the out set is... we are certainly not going to agree on everything. That’s what is so great about these types of forums... Our differences actually benefit us more... What would happen if we agreed on everything? Today, I have been returning to this forum and keep selecting this discussion. I probably should “turn the channel” but I think this is an interesting topic. I do wonder why Fishaholic doesn’t just say enough and be done with this... Fishaholic wants to make a stand... I respect that. What I hope happens is everyone takes notice and a healthy dialogue is sparked. What I don’t want, is to lose the opportunity to learn. If you feel strongly about your position, educate us. Don’t abandon those out there who need to hear from an experienced source. It would benefit this BB community more to hear what you have to say than for you to go silent. I believe everyone has to take responsibilty for how they participate within this hobby. Knowledge is power. Absolutely know what your buying... who your buying it from... how to take care of it. Don’t buy anything that is impossible to keep. Don’t buy from people who sell animals that are impossible to keep. Read, read, read...These animals are gifts to us that deserve the very best care possible.

Bottomline... stay and participate for those who are learning. What if your comments convinced someone not to purchase that Moorish Idol? What if your comments convinced someone to stop importing Moorish Idols? This forum is so important to the welfare of the animals that we enjoy keeping. It is a tool for us all. It would be a waste to sign off.

Lastly... to everyone participating on Reefs.com or any other BB. Be respectful of each other even when you don’t agree.

 

[maroon clown]

fishaholic-
i think you should stay.. running away from something you dont agree with doesnt really solve anything- it just allows what you dont like to take over. I think you will better be able to get your point across if you stay and really argue it rather than just pick up your toys and go home. Plus, good advice is always needed!

 

[kipreefer]

Reef......
I understand why you made this decision. I would also consider myself as very conscious of my decisions and what they do to the earth. Many times when looking at my aquarium i have just wondered Why? Why do i pull all these animals out of their homes just so i have a center piece in my room? But the reason i stick to it is because i now that maybe what i am doing in my aquairum will educate others about the reefs and how they work. So that maybe those who leave my house are like hey "Maybe the reefs are worth more then what i used to give them credit for". But there are still times when i wonder if i should jsut through in the towel and not contribute.

When ever i read any post you wrote i was impressed with the pride and maturate you demonstrated in your answers. You were always willing to help and conserve the reefs. I will miss you and i think others will do the same.
Peace
good luck with future plans

 

[MandarinFish]

Whoa! A lot of people responded to Dave.

I'm surprised to check in and see how much this thread has grown.

I would like to apologize to those who took offense in my blanket condemnation of thoughtless aquarists.

Not everyone makes blind, stupid, or careless purchases of animals.

But I know I've seen all kinds of animals that have no business in a pet store / LFS for sale to aquarists. Obviously because they are being bought. And catchers/"importers"/poachers are dealing in them.

The reason aquaculture and saltwater fish farms go out of business is that hobbyists won't take the time or money to buy exclusively from them. That's probably a big reason C-Quest won't be reopened. *SO* many farms go out of business because people won't pay a dollar more for something bred rather than captured, or people want the REALLY exotic looking stingray in the shop.

Importers / poachers make money because people pay money.

Of course, many animals aren't fit for captivity and the result is bad. You read stories about that in Florida all the time, how undomesticated species bought as "pets" get released into the wild. Fish and corals just die.

I know I'm no major player here, but I am encouraged by what many people have written. There are many uncaring chumps, but it seems like this community is generally concerned with doing what is right.

I will do my best to share what limited information I have found in order to help cognizant aquarists.

I hope I can help dissuade someone from buying a dragonet to put in a 10 gallon tank. If so, I will feel good.

It is also my every intent to question, challenge, refute, disprove, and harass wild animal catchers. So I'll throw down with Mary and call her on her awful trade.

"Hands all over coastal waters
The crewman thank her
Then lay down their oil blanket." - Soundgarden

 

[JeremyR]

<<The reason aquaculture and saltwater fish farms go out of business is that hobbyists won't take the time or money to buy exclusively from them. That's probably a big reason C-Quest won't be reopened. *SO* many farms go out of business because people won't pay a dollar more for something bred rather than captured, or people want the REALLY exotic looking stingray in the shop.>>

Off topic I know.. but part of the reason ORA has survived (and been the first ornamental fish hatchery to turn a profit according to them) and c-quest did not, is because C-quest had a substandard product in comparison to ORA. I'm happy to carry ORA fish in the store.. and I don't have any problem getting people to buy the clowns.. I haven't heard someone complain about them being too expensive etc. in quite some time, and they don't send me bum malformed fish like c-quest used too.

 

[Hyolee]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kipreefer:
<strong>Reef......
I understand why you made this decision. I would also consider myself as very conscious of my decisions and what they do to the earth. Many times when looking at my aquarium i have just wondered Why? Why do i pull all these animals out of their homes just so i have a center piece in my room? But the reason i stick to it is because i now that maybe what i am doing in my aquairum will educate others about the reefs and how they work. So that maybe those who leave my house are like hey "Maybe the reefs are worth more then what i used to give them credit for". But there are still times when i wonder if i should jsut through in the towel and not contribute.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not to sound mean or anything, but highly doubt that keeping a reef persuades others to preserve it. If anything, I would think it would encourage them to go out and get one themselves! (see "My fraternity is hooked to saltwater tanks")

I keep a reef tank too, and I realize that my actions are destroying the reefs. If you really want to save the reefs, wouldn't it be wiser to start a petition or lobby than to pump more money into the reef trade and contribute to the damage? Let's put it this way, has anyone you "educated" made any efforts to preserve the reefs?

To those who are flaming Fishaholic for copping out, I don't believe he is at all. I think most reefkeepers don't care enough about the preservation of reefs. Sure, we all agree that we should preserve it, but we are only contributing to the damage. I had a friend from school who saw my salt water tank once and said it was pretty and she would like one, but that she doesn't believe in keeping animals in captivity. Now that is someone who actually cares. Not this "I'm educating other people" mumbo jumbo which in reality does nothing. So Fishaholic's staying on this board would be akin to a Playstation 2 fan going on a Xbox board and telling them to dump their Xbox's and get PS2s instead. Basically, it's going to do nothing, because we will hear his words, but we won't change. Plus, Fishaholic's time could be better used to educate people who can actually make a difference in the government or industry trade, than say a hobbyist who wants to put a dolphin in a bathtub.

 

[MandarinFish]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

Plus, Fishaholic's time could be better used to educate people who can actually make a difference in the government or industry trade, than say a hobbyist who wants to put a dolphin in a bathtub

nice post

PS C-Quest also went under because of a hurricane, but that desert fish farm went under because of $$$, or lack thereof

 

[fishfarmer]

Fishaholic,
Please don't leave. I enjoy your insight and you have made me rethink my stance on how I should reef. I think you are taking the easy way out, throwing your hands up in disgust, because you believe the fight isn't worth fighing anymore. If you are a true conservationist you will stay with this board and EDUCATE and voice your opinion. I respect conservationist's like yourself, I used to have that spark of conservationism in me years ago, but it has been fizzling out in recent years. I think it would be a mistake for you to leave, especially since the new forum has only been running for a short time.

 

[kipreefer]

Hyolee, i understand what you are saying about my post. I may have gave the wrong idea when i wrote that. What i meant to say is that when people see my aquarium i tell them about how everyhting relates to each other and on the glass i have a promote agricultured static cling. Yes i promote good collection practices and i research as much as i can before i purchase a specimen. But i really enjoy just the biology of the reef and if i didnt have it in my room i would not have learned as much as i have about them. Before i started keeping a reef aquarium i didnt realize how delicate everything on the reef was until i was considered there care taker. I now have much more respect for our oceans and try to minimize my contribution to destoying them as much as possible. I understand if you totally dont agree with me but i am entitled to my own opinion. On the line of us not going and doing anything i am only 18 just started college i am nethier financally or emotionally ready to lead a campagn so to say. The last two summers i have spent a total of 4 months volunteering in national parks( Denali adn Teddy Rosevelt). I also am a vegetartian so i figure that the things i have done in my life have repaid for the things i have in my aquarium. I helped replant 5000 sq feet of tundra i figure i can recreate 6 sq feet of ocean . Half base rock and silica sand and half the animals captive raised.

 

[MandarinFish]

You are awesome Kipreefer.

You can have a 100% totally sustainable tank.

 

[Anonymous]

{ insert sucking drain noise here.. }