Baby sea turtles, might hobbyists help?

[Kalkbreath]

Your brush is too broad because it depends on the test/experiment.

Lets explore one of your exceptions to my rule.
Please site example of how field conditions or laboratory conditions cant affect an observation?

 

[sihaya]

The bottom line is that most marine scientists have NO NEED to keep stuff alive in tanks,

Oh, I don't know about that....

I do.

Realistically, there's really no arguing with you smug winkiers. So, whatever. Yeah, scientists are completely helpless without the hobby!

Dude, back it up a bit... I NEVER said anything like that. All I was saying is that they do *sometimes* benefit from our knowledge/experiences.

 

[Anonymous]

They do have a rudimentary understanding - most use flow through systems.

[.

But thats not good enough.
You must provide a captive situation in which the captivity no longer plays a role in the findings. More over you must prove that your containment didnt effect the out come. How many scientific papers even address this issue?

Its not good enough for you. Who are you to tell others what they must do?
You are still painting with a broad brush. Clearly you have certain experiments in mind, but you are generalizing to every experiment which is a bad move.

[/quote]Flow through systems may replicate water quality, but hardly wave action, sun light at different depts, etc.
And besides , flow through source water is usually shoreline water. Unless the target is a shore line species what water quality has been duplicated ?[/quote]

More broad brushes.

 

[Anonymous]

Your brush is too broad because it depends on the test/experiment.

Lets explore one of your exceptions to my rule.
Please site example of how field conditions or laboratory conditions cant affect an observation?

I have no idea why you think I think any conditions cannot effect an observation.

This part of the discussion isn't fun for me.

 

[Anonymous]

(of course my opinion doesn't count since i'm a lowly unworthy hobbyist/industry type - i hope those who ask for husbandry help aren't so full of hubris as you when they get the answers they need from us lowly hobbyists who have more experience in captive coral care than they do )

Hubris? I think you are way misreading me. I have NO, ZERO, NADA problem with the idea of scientists getting husbandry advice from a hobbyists. We have a scientist here who needs to culture corals for their postdoctoral research. That scientist bought and read Sprung and Delbeek to learn how, not a scientific treatise. Scientists ask and try to answer scientific questions. Hobbyists husband organisms that scientists may or may not be interested in asking/answering scientific questions about. I think the idea that scientists need husbandry expertise a priori for them to be competent overall as scientists is ridiculous.

 

[Anonymous]

(of course my opinion doesn't count since i'm a lowly unworthy hobbyist/industry type - i hope those who ask for husbandry help aren't so full of hubris as you when they get the answers they need from us lowly hobbyists who have more experience in captive coral care than they do )

Hubris? I think you are way misreading me. I have NO, ZERO, NADA problem with the idea of scientists getting husbandry advice from a hobbyists. We have a scientist here who needs to culture corals for their postdoctoral research. That scientist bought and read Sprung and Delbeek to learn how, not a scientific treatise. Scientists ask and try to answer scientific questions. Hobbyists husband organisms that scientists may or may not be interested in asking/answering scientific questions about. I think the idea that scientists need husbandry expertise a priori for them to be competent overall as scientists is ridiculous.

i never said that they needed husbandry skills to be competent scientists-please read my posts more carefully, and stop putting words in my mouth! :idea:

 

[blackcloudmedia]

Hey guys???????? Why dont we just kill the seagulls?

 

[sihaya]

Hey guys???????? Why dont we just kill the seagulls?

Well, aside from the fact that killing one species to save another usually backfires in some way or another... it would be kinda hard to kill them without killing a lot of other birds (and possibly other animals) in the process.

 

[Anonymous]

i never said that they needed husbandry skills to be competent scientists-please read my posts more carefully, and stop putting words in my mouth! :idea:

knowing how to keep marine life alive in a closed system on at least a basic level should be a pre-requisite for a bachelors level degree, imo

do you really think it's that 'out of line' to expect someone who's accredited by an academic society to have knowledge in the field of marine BIOLOGY to show they have husbandry education/ability/practice ?

why SHOULDN'T it be part of the accreditation process?

Yeah, words in your mouth. :roll:

Vitz, you are a sad, pathetic, smug, and useless self-righteous geezer with absolutely NO qualification to make statements such as:

PhD's and marine 'biologists' are generally SEVERELY lacking in the practical and applied aspects of their field, and waaaay oversaturated with 'on paper' education only

It's QUITE obvious that you don't have the slightest inkling what goes into a undergraduate or graduate education in biology or any other natural science.

 

[Anonymous]

yes-words in my mouth-not ONE of those statements has anything to do with my assessments of competence in SCIENTIFIC APTITUDE OR ABILITY-anyone who follows scientific method properly is a proper scientist-one doesn't need a degree, or accreditation, to be able to follow protocol or scientific method correctly :idea:

the very notion that one can only be labelled a scientist if other scientists call them such/deem them as such is ludicrous, and the epitome of snobbery/elitism-which you always seems to have an abundance of

let's use a different example-would you entrust your dog to a vet with NO practical experience in dog care ? or consider them qualified to do so? :wink: :idea:

It's QUITE obvious that you don't have the slightest inkling what goes into a undergraduate or graduate education in biology or any other natural science

you have no idea what i have an inkling of, regarding anything-regardless of what you always seem to think is obvious :idea:

 

[Kalkbreath]

Hey guys???????? Why dont we just kill the seagulls?

Well, aside from the fact that killing one species to save another usually backfires in some way or another... it would be kinda hard to kill them without killing a lot of other birds (and possibly other animals) in the process.

Seagulls are simply the first to feast on the little turtles.
and the most widely filmed predation event. I cant even fathom how three inch turtles can survive in the open sea for more then a day.
Having to surface fifty times a day to breath exposes them to a plethora of waiting mouths.
It almost makes me think something is wrong with the picture.
Could nature have messed up?
Could it be that in the past there were so many more things to feed on like monster size schools of baitfish in the seas and millions of sand crabs on the beach for the birds to eat ..... that the baby turtles were less focused on simply because before man disrupted the marine ecosystem.......there was poop loads more distractions and options to eat.
Perhaps we could afix rebreathers on the turtles so they would not have to surface for air.(wink)

 

[sihaya]

Could nature have messed up?

Naw... we messed up. Before humans started screwing with things, there were a lot more baby turtles to spare.

Could it be that in the past there were so many more things to feed on like monster size schools of baitfish in the seas and millions of sand crabs on the beach for the birds to eat ..... that the baby turtles were less focused on simply because before man disrupted the marine ecosystem.......there was poop loads more distractions and options to eat.

That's what I'm thinking. Except that I also think there were more baby turtles too.

Perhaps we could afix rebreathers on the turtles so they would not have to surface for air.(wink)

LOL

 

[blackcloudmedia]

I still say we kill the seagulls. You dont know how annoying it is to be fishing and hook a bird. lol. Good call on the fact that there may have been more to feed on. I am a firm believer that the removal of costal mangrove swamps has wreaked havoc on the marine ecosystem.