Baby sea turtles, might hobbyists help?

[Anonymous]

almost weekly i see emails from researchers/marine biologist on coral-list asking how to setup coral aquaria for experiments-their ignorance on simple things like lighting and the equipment to provide it stagger my mind

i've met maybe a dozen PhD's that work/worked in the field of marine aquaria/ornamentals-none of them could keep a fish alive, or setup a healthy tank, some were ignorant of reef chemistry 101-things like Kh and pH NOT being the same thing (isn't that 1st year marine bio?)

(it really does mean 'piled higher and deeper )

 

[Anonymous]

almost weekly i see emails from researchers/marine biologist on coral-list asking how to setup coral aquaria for experiments-their ignorance on simple things like lighting and the equipment to provide it stagger my mind

The bottom line is that most marine scientists have NO NEED to keep stuff alive in tanks, its silly to expect them to be able to simply because they are marine scientists. It's a specialized skill thats nice to have, not one that is a requirement to ask or answer a myriad of scientific questions. I'm also on the coral list, and your "almost weekly" statistic is a complete fantasy. Your giant ego needs a cold glass of water to the nuts.

some were ignorant of reef chemistry 101-things like Kh and pH NOT being the same thing (isn't that 1st year marine bio?)

(it really does mean 'piled higher and deeper )

Here in real reef chemistry land, we use real units to express alkalinity, not kH or mEq/L

 

[Anonymous]

almost weekly i see emails from researchers/marine biologist on coral-list asking how to setup coral aquaria for experiments-their ignorance on simple things like lighting and the equipment to provide it stagger my mind

The bottom line is that most marine scientists have NO NEED to keep stuff alive in tanks, its silly to expect them to be able to simply because they are marine scientists. It's a specialized skill thats nice to have, not one that is a requirement to ask or answer a myriad of scientific questions. I'm also on the coral list, and your "almost weekly" statistic is a complete fantasy. Your giant ego needs a cold glass of water to the nuts.

some were ignorant of reef chemistry 101-things like Kh and pH NOT being the same thing (isn't that 1st year marine bio?)

(it really does mean 'piled higher and deeper )

Here in real reef chemistry land, we use real units to express alkalinity, not kH or mEq/L

i'd say there is on average, about one email/week from an egghead on coral-list asking about keeping corals in a closed system-and it's something i think they should be readily able to learn about solve on their own with a trip to the local library-ESPECIALLY if they have access to one in an institution of higher learning

regardless of the units used-that's not what i'm talking about-in this case it was a PhD using a kH buffer constantly to raise pH, without ever even bothering to check the kH level-being a snob with unit terminology gets you nowhere-but it's typical of your grandstanding youngun upstartish style-i can dig it

PhD's and marine 'biologists' are generally SEVERELY lacking in the practical and applied aspects of their field, and waaaay oversaturated with 'on paper' education only :idea:

paper will teach you profoundly little about how to husband any animal truly properly, imo

 

[Anonymous]

The bottom line is that most marine scientists have NO NEED to keep stuff alive in tanks, its silly to expect them to be able to simply because they are marine scientists

change 'scientist' (which could mean a studier of el nino, for all i know) to 'biologist', and there's a whole world of difference

knowing how to keep marine life alive in a closed system on at least a basic level should be a pre-requisite for a bachelors level degree, imo

 

[blackcloudmedia]

So.....Ive got a better idea. How about instead of going throught the trouble of raising turtles. We replace the camera man filming the seagulls devouring the hatchlings, with oh lets say....a shotgun assblasting the seagulls. Here in Florida I can assure you we have ENOUGH seagulls.

 

[Anonymous]

there's a reason for the high natural predation of the various species on the planet

how about we learn to not continue to screw things up through our own self absorbed selfish and damaging lifestyles/actions? :idea:

 

[sihaya]

The bottom line is that most marine scientists have NO NEED to keep stuff alive in tanks,

Oh, I don't know about that.... I think a lot of them do keep stuff in tanks. It's just not like how we do. They culture marine worms and critters and such quite often I think. And oddly enough, it's not just marine biologists. More than a few medical researchers experiment with marine inverts.

Like Vitz pointed out, it's not uncommon to see scientists on the coral list serve asking aquarists for help.

 

[Anonymous]

The bottom line is that most marine scientists have NO NEED to keep stuff alive in tanks,

Oh, I don't know about that....

I do.

Realistically, there's really no arguing with you smug winkiers. So, whatever. Yeah, scientists are completely helpless without the hobby! We could make no progress in marine science without your expertise. Especially you vitz, you know everything!

There you go.

 

[Anonymous]

The bottom line is that most marine scientists have NO NEED to keep stuff alive in tanks,

Oh, I don't know about that....

I do.

Realistically, there's really no arguing with you smug winkiers. So, whatever. Yeah, scientists are completely helpless without the hobby! We could make no progress in marine science without your expertise. Especially you vitz, you know everything!

There you go.

your interpretations of what i actually say would be far closer to the mark if you would put your ego aside for the moment

never have i even remotely suggested that scientists NEED the hobby, let alone would be helpless without it

and the rest of your interpretation i'll just not honor with a response, as it doesn't deserve one, really

sit back, take a deep breath, and please re-read what i posted

do you really think it's that 'out of line' to expect someone who's accredited by an academic society to have knowledge in the field of marine BIOLOGY to show they have husbandry education/ability/practice ?

why SHOULDN'T it be part of the accreditation process? :idea:

 

[Anonymous]

do you really think it's that 'out of line' to expect someone who's accredited by an academic society to have knowledge in the field of marine BIOLOGY to show they have husbandry education/ability/practice ?

That really depends on what part of marine biology the person in question studies.

why SHOULDN'T it be part of the accreditation process? :idea:

Perhaps for the same reason hermit crab husbandry isn't part of the accreditation process.

 

[Anonymous]

]
do you really think it's that 'out of line' to expect someone who's accredited by an academic society to have knowledge in the field of marine BIOLOGY to show they have husbandry education/ability/practice ?

Yes.

 

[Anonymous]

]
do you really think it's that 'out of line' to expect someone who's accredited by an academic society to have knowledge in the field of marine BIOLOGY to show they have husbandry education/ability/practice ?

Yes.

:lol:

 

[Kalkbreath]

knowing how to keep marine life alive in a closed system on at least a basic level should be a pre-requisite for a bachelors level degree, imo

No scientific tests conducted in a lab on corals or clams should begin until the test subject has been successfully maintained and stabilized for six months to a year under captive conditions..
Otherwise the test results will be skewed by the poor husbandry.
Husbandry should come first the scientific process second.

All too often test results reflect the (coral clam etc.) failing to adapt to sub ideal husbandry conditions. There fore making the results useless.

 

[Anonymous]

knowing how to keep marine life alive in a closed system on at least a basic level should be a pre-requisite for a bachelors level degree, imo

No scientific tests conducted in a lab on corals or clams should begin until the test subject has been successfully maintained and stabilized for six months to a year under captive conditions..
Otherwise the test results will be skewed by the poor husbandry.
Husbandry should come first the scientific process second.

All too often test results reflect the (coral clam etc.) failing to adapt to sub ideal husbandry conditions. There fore making the results useless.

Thats a crazy broad brush you are painting with.

 

[Anonymous]

do you really think it's that 'out of line' to expect someone who's accredited by an academic society to have knowledge in the field of marine BIOLOGY to show they have husbandry education/ability/practice ?

That really depends on what part of marine biology the person in question studies.

why SHOULDN'T it be part of the accreditation process? :idea:

Perhaps for the same reason hermit crab husbandry isn't part of the accreditation process.

that's a crazy narrow brush you're painting with

i think that if one is to be granted a confirmation of understanding of marine life processes by a peer reviewed academic group-they should have at least a rudimentary understanding of the practical applied knowledge of that subject-similiar to the learning process a sw noob hobbyist goes through-they needn't specialize in hermit crabs

but if they're going to be studying corals, i would think they would WANT to educate themselves even, as to how to keep them alive properly in captivity, as part of their basic education process

 

[Anonymous]

]
do you really think it's that 'out of line' to expect someone who's accredited by an academic society to have knowledge in the field of marine BIOLOGY to show they have husbandry education/ability/practice ?

Yes.

well ok then-i happen to disagree

(of course my opinion doesn't count since i'm a lowly unworthy hobbyist/industry type - i hope those who ask for husbandry help aren't so full of hubris as you when they get the answers they need from us lowly hobbyists who have more experience in captive coral care than they do )

 

[Kalkbreath]

Thats a crazy broad brush you are painting with.

Thats the trick with captive scientific assessments.
1.)Conduct the test in the wild and the data isnt skewed by the captive conditions. Its an unadulterated condition.
2.)Conduct a test under captive conditions and the captivity itself becomes unavoidably part of the test.

Truly duplicating wild conditions is impossible.
One can strive to come pretty close though

Thats where HUSBANDRY supersedes SCIENCE

 

[Anonymous]

i think that if one is to be granted a confirmation of understanding of marine life processes by a peer reviewed academic group-they should have at least a rudimentary understanding of the practical applied knowledge of that subject-similiar to the learning process a sw noob hobbyist goes through-they needn't specialize in hermit crabs

They do have a rudimentary understanding - most use flow through systems.

but if they're going to be studying corals, i would think they would WANT to educate themselves even, as to how to keep them alive properly in captivity, as part of their basic education process

The ones that want to know do ask the questions.

 

[Anonymous]

Thats a crazy broad brush you are painting with.

Thats the trick with captive scientific assessments.
1.)Conduct the test in the wild and the data isnt skewed by the captive conditions. Its an unadulterated condition.
2.)Conduct a test under captive conditions and the captivity itself becomes unavoidably part of the test.

Truly duplicating wild conditions is impossible.
One can strive to come pretty close though

Thats where HUSBANDRY supersedes SCIENCE

Your brush is too broad because it depends on the test/experiment.

 

[Kalkbreath]

They do have a rudimentary understanding - most use flow through systems.

[.

But thats not good enough.
You must provide a captive situation in which the captivity no longer plays a role in the findings. More over you must prove that your containment didnt effect the out come. How many scientific papers even address this issue?

Flow through systems may replicate water quality, but hardly wave action, sun light at different depts, etc.
And besides , flow through source water is usually shoreline water. Unless the target is a shore line species what water quality has been duplicated ?