Kick Ick - tried it???

[Anonymous]

Oh, I forgot- to treat a 160 gal. tank is ~$30.00, not as cheap as hypo or garlic!

The miracle factor in kick ick is that it won't kill your inverts and coral (supposedly). Try hypo on a reef and you'll have a tank full of dead everything except fish. Try it on a FOWLER and your live rock is going to have a massive die off as pods and worms all drop dead from celular explosions. Same goes for copper and other harsh chemicals.

And this is why Kick Ick is so attractive to people...."Step right up folks and get a bottle of this miracle cure! No need to set up a hospital tank, no need to take apart rock structures trying to catch sick fish out of the main tank. It's reef safe, rock safe, coral safe, invert safe, and safe for every form of life on the planet except for marine ick! Just pour it in your tank and ick is gone for good!" :lol:


I've used garlic too by the way. It might help the fish to fight off the parasites and it is said to stimulate their hunger, which is good for keeping a fish strong and eating a lot. But it won't kill parasites in the water, so it's not really a way to fight ich as much as it is a way to strengthen fish against ich. Even that is all anecdotal.

 

[Rlumenator]

As far as killing corals, clams, etc.- no one on any other forum has had a problem with it. I'm aware of the on going garlic controversy. I use it- does it work? as you said- anecdotaly. This hobby has not gone forward because of naysayers, but because of innovators.

 

[Anonymous]

As far as killing corals, clams, etc.- no one on any other forum has had a problem with it. I'm aware of the on going garlic controversy. I use it- does it work? as you said- anecdotaly. This hobby has not gone forward because of naysayers, but because of innovators.

To it's credit, I haven't read anything about Kick Ick killing anything important in anyone's tank.

That's what worries me actually. If it isn't killing a delicate corals and inverts, and it isn't killing beneficial bacteria, then what are the odds it's actually killing anything at all? :wink:


Keep us posted on how it works for you.

 

[Anonymous]

Wings: Looking better, thank you. Also my giant cleaner shrimp are working on him.

Manny & Righty- Yes I'm aware of the life cycle. Besides reading Fish Diseases, also books by Borneman, Sprung, Nielson & Fossa, etc., very good articles by StevenPro, I also look at various other fish forums- some even don't get sidetracked from the basic question I posed. There are actually responses to the question, not expalnations of the cycles- tomites,trophonts, etc. for this is not the thread. It is as if I asked does anyone use Tide? No- you must use Whisk, only Whisk is proven to do the job. First you must sort your clothes, then you must pretreat... Get the idea?? My question was asking for results by people who tried it. Regards, Dawn.

I gave you the results from when I tried it.
This hobby is full of snake oil and misinformation, and I feel that general discussion of the product and disease in question is perfectly reasonable in this thread.

 

[Anonymous]

As far as killing corals, clams, etc.- no one on any other forum has had a problem with it. I'm aware of the on going garlic controversy. I use it- does it work? as you said- anecdotaly. This hobby has not gone forward because of naysayers, but because of innovators.

6-8 years ago there were reports of this product killing corals.

Over the last 5 years discussion of this product has continued, and the overwhelming anecdotal evidence is that it doesn't work.

Again, I would love for this product to work. Its advertising refers to what isn't in it, but not what is in it - as well as mentioning studies that no one can seem to produce.

This hobby has gone forward also because of those you categorize as 'naysayers' If they didn't speak up we would all be adding mystery concoctions to our reefs, feeding brine shrimp, using watts per gallon to determine lighting, running EcoAqualizers, turning up the heat to fight ich and more. I am not 'naysaying', but I am looking for real evidence of a products usefulness. This hobby is full of snake oil, which is not innovation, and as responsible reef keepers I think it is up to all of us to be sure products do what they actually claim they do. Without some actual evidence, we are gambling with the lives of the creatures in our tanks and I think they deserve better than that.

 

[Rlumenator]

I think when someone crys snake oil- it is a step backwards. Joe's Juice works great- it doesn't list ingredients, and I have heard the same thing- snake oil- said about it.
I had wished to keep the tang in qt- if you read my other threads- now I am faced with using something I'm not sure of - but I am sure it won't hurt anything in the tank. I will keep you all posted - good or bad.

 

[Anonymous]

The cry of snake oil can be a step backwards, it can also be a great reality check. You have to take it on a case by case basis and see if the snake oil claim is a knee jerk reaction or if its thought through set of ideas.

False or over inflated claims run rampant in this hobby, and if we don't take them to task we are all suffer for it.

If you are interested in a discussion of snake oils let me know, as I don't want to derail your thread any more than it has been.

 

[Rlumenator]

No- let's stick with the orig. thread. Start a new one on it- I need to leave now- I will be back in the a.m. I appreciate everyone's input- we're all in this voyage of the unknown together... Regards, Dawn.

 

[Anonymous]

I tried it at a wholesale level. I used two cases. I lost a load of fish. It drove me right back to the tried and true, copper. Reef safe ich cure, yup :lol:

Yah know, if a company is putting out chemicals that can injure/kill you, regardless of it's intended use, they have to list the active ingredients. If there is nothing active to list, ie. nothing that does anything, no ingredients need be listed.

 

[Omni2226]

Well I will be watching for results...ich outbreak. QT for a month but evidently the damsels that were once in my tank had the parasite. Never saw any signs of ich but I should have known...ah well.

3 days after I placed the tang and gramma boom covered in spots..sigh.
10 minute freshwater dip and back into the QT tank with coppersafe.
Pain in the butt to tear the rocks apart and catch em.

I have noticed one thing about ich medicines. Most of the ones that are known to work state "Not safe for snails, invertebrates with no exoskeleton and corals." Kick ich and a few others that do not harm these animals makes me wonder whats in them that works.

Boy if you could come up with a safe reef/marine system cure for ich that worked even 80% of the time you would be rich.

 

[slapshot16]

Dawn: The Ich is back with a vengeance. I am still in the treating cycle for about 5 more days. The Kick Ich seemed to work right away and parasites were gone for about 5 days. Now they are back. From reading the posts, this looks like the normal cycle of Ich. The fish are still scratching. My opinion of Kick Ich is changing. I will see the treatment through and be ready to quarantine with copper. (I may first try cleaner shrimp, but I am worried that I will be givng the trigger a gourmet meal).

 

[Rlumenator]

Greshamh- that applies to products for humans- not for fish- the FDA doesn't step in here. Slapshot- this is disheartening- I saw where some people- may have been on other forum- had to up the dose. keep us posted, please. Regards, Dawn.

 

[Anonymous]

Greshamh- that applies to products for humans- not for fish- the FDA doesn't step in here. Slapshot- this is disheartening- I saw where some people- may have been on other forum- had to up the dose. keep us posted, please. Regards, Dawn.

Dawn, sorry but your wrong. I happen to be a MOI feed producer and have spent the last 2 months with a team of laywers on this very subject. That's utter BS the FDA doesn't step in here, sheesh, even US Dept. of Ag rules in here You go spend $10K researching label laws, then you tell me, and my lawyers that we are wrong. belive me, this stuff is extremelly sticky and not easy to figure out. After our research, I've found many MOI producers to be in voilation. There are labelling laws in the country Dawn, honestly, and the do apply to this. They're even required to provided a MSDS. The reason they haven't, is they haven't been called on it....yet.

Why do you think some fish medications have been pulled in the last few years from the market all together? Do you think the companies didn't want the profit on them, or rather the substances have been banned? Who banned them?

 

[Rlumenator]

That's exacctly what people said on this forum, oh, about a year and a half ago- it was in ref. to Black Powder and a couple of other products. They said, and others agreed, that the FDA didn't get involved. I, personally didn't care one way or another. Would you shoot me a link to the govt. dept. that governs what's in fish products? Thanks , Dawn.

 

[Anonymous]

Greshamh- that applies to products for humans- not for fish- the FDA doesn't step in here. Slapshot- this is disheartening- I saw where some people- may have been on other forum- had to up the dose. keep us posted, please. Regards, Dawn.

you are most definately WRONG about that - I work for the FDA and I can tell you that all medications, and food component products for both human and animal consumption are regulated by the FDA - this includes the packaging materials(the plastic bottles, styrofoam, plastic wraps, even paper labels and the inks they use to print out the labels for example)
Several years ago, two brands of fish food were pulled off the market nationally because of FDA 501C violations.

 

[Rlumenator]

Would you send me that link? Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Greshamh- that applies to products for humans- not for fish- the FDA doesn't step in here. Slapshot- this is disheartening- I saw where some people- may have been on other forum- had to up the dose. keep us posted, please. Regards, Dawn.

If there's poison in it, they have to put a warning in case a kid drinks half a gallon of the stuff. No warning and either there is no poison in it, or the company is breaking some serious regulations.


Kick Ick doesn't have any poison in it though. If it did, it would kill corals and inverts.

 

[Anonymous]

Google is your friend Dawn. It has billions of links

It's not a debate here Dawn, it's the simple truth. Why would I spend thousands of dollars on my labels, if I don't need to? The National Labeling Act is pretty clear, as is the FDA's roll in regulating animal feeds and suppliments. Why not do a search on the FDA site? Remember, it's mostly legal talk on there, and you'll have to read between some of the lines. A lawyer will help guide you thru the language

BTW, The USDA and FDA are the largest employers of DVM's. Why would the FDA have a large staff of DVM's, if they don't regulate animal products? FWIW, my sister is a vet, 2/3 of her graduating class went to both FDA and USDA, mainly USDA though.

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.google.com/
http://www.fda.gov/

 

[Anonymous]

Greshamh- that applies to products for humans- not for fish- the FDA doesn't step in here. Slapshot- this is disheartening- I saw where some people- may have been on other forum- had to up the dose. keep us posted, please. Regards, Dawn.

If there's poison in it, they have to put a warning in case a kid drinks half a gallon of the stuff. No warning and either there is no poison in it, or the company is breaking some serious regulations.


Kick Ick doesn't have any poison in it though. If it did, it would kill corals and inverts.

I have to list every active ingredient in my product, regardless if it can kill anyone. I'm a fed producer though and subject to harsher labeling laws then a suppliment, but less then a medication, which is what they claim Kick Ich is. Being a medication, they have much harsher labeling guidelines then I do. There has been some movement on making it easy for minor use animal medications, but I doubt they're so loose as to let the manufacturers list no ingredients what so ever.