Hi all,
Anyone ever hear of marine velvet?
Amyloodinia is so like ich, and the infected fish will announce its infection with similar reactions to ich: flashing, rapid respiration and scratching against rocks. Most hobbyists wouldn't be able to tell the difference before a fish dies. I'm not so sure how to deal with marine velvet - but I've done my bit of experimenting with marine ich, and even been lucky enough to have been engaged for some testing for Ruby Reef. So has Terry, and if I've
any knowledge of this parasite, Terry is the
library.
Seriously, if you are a newer hobbyist, and scratching your head, thinking that we are a bunch of dolts scratching our heads and only "theorizing" and arguing about this parasite - there actually
has been some conclusive studies done on both marine and freshwater ich.
First and foremost - apply the "virgin tank" theory to a new system. Ich is not poured in with the salt, nor is it a ready hitchiker on fresh water. Suppose you lay down a DSB, cycle with shrimp (hey, there's a pretty good article on that, somewhere!
) and use all dry base rock. No ich, agreed? Now, we take and acclimate a fish that has been quarantined, with no trophozoites burrowed or otherwise present on the fish. We certainly know we can
kill the parasite, and thus we can even insure that we take steps to preclude any assumed presence, in a strict test example. As we let the tank mature, even seeding it with some premium live rock, also quarantined (by this, I mean that it sits in a well lit, cycled tank with no fish/hosts) the tank will become a full bore "marine system." There. We let things sit, feeding normally, but never introducing anything else. We have an ich-free system. So, by example, ich is
not present in "all" marine systems. We must introduce it. It has a definite life-cycle, and we are not "struggling" to understand it. Well, not all of us.
There are a variety of ways to combat this parasite, and indeed there is no better evidence that a parasite-free tank to "document" the very "possibility" that some think still exists. This particular parasite does not appear out of thin water and in any instance of outbreak, I always recommend "starving" the tank, thereby eliminating the reproductive cycle of the parasite, which science is not undetermined about.
To be sure, ich
is present in some folks' systems for quite a duration. I'm also readily convinced that some folks "observe" no ich, and then might lose a fish to marine velvet, or even an outbreak of ich itself. But this has always been present in
their system - not
everyone's systems. There are certainly "virgin" setups, and I've got two right now. Don't mistake "virgin" with being "new." Quite seasoned, they've just never had the ich parasite introduced. My chances of introducing it are quite limited. My lost joy of choosing colorful fish is countered by the fact that I've no "attrition" which requires me to
replace fish. I also suppose my powder-blue and yellow tang are considered some of the more "prone" fish to host this parasite.
We know much facts about
C.irritans. Hundreds of infecting tomites are released from a single mature trophont. It is inarguable that ich can continue a severely "reduced" lifestyle, given that only a few tomites are needed to infect and go relatively unnoticed - continuing the lifecycle as
science has determined it. But just as our fish would die if we don't feed them, the parasite will die if there's no host for it. There has not been a single incident of a reported "Rip Van Winkle" type trophont. Their life-cycle is well-documented. Nobody here needs to "prove" what science has determined for us.
Just as sure as longhorn cows don't magically appear in my systems, neither will the
C.irritans parasite.
There are steps some folks will take that lead to successful additions of fish/corals
without introducing the parasite. Such quarantine methods can be quite effective. I personally advocate a two-month quarantine, with hyposalinity being applied at a one-month mark - as long as the fish appears to be in good health thus far. Some folks gamble. Some folks gamble until they have a major devastation, and then they quarantine successfully for about 5 years or so,
until they feel "comfortable" and "educated" about making a "wise choice" at their lfs. Again, they have returned to gambling. I've had my fish
way too long to
ever risk
not quarantining.
The topic thread is about
PREVENTING illness, not in treating it. I think it is not unfair to preclude that we can
prevent the introduction of ich into a system - thereby creating an "ich-free" system.
We are learning more and more about the hobby... but some things are handed to us by nature - and we've yet to alter them. We can can alter/reduce/eliminate many items found in the "integrity" of the natural reef when we maintain a closed-system. Ich
is always present in nature. Our tanks consist only of the components of nature
we introduce. Quarantine is an excellent measure of preventing many diseases.
I've been lucky enough to have engaged in some work with the same company Terry has done some testing for. While we may have different conclusions as to the worthiness of a particular product, I'd certainly never call him an "idiot" for having a different opinion. Indeed, I'd think he's the #1 "go-to" person if a hobbyist has any questions about ich. I'm always glad to lend a hand with treating ich
in a living reef, although I'll agree with Terry that hypo is the best method.
Anyway, I'm not a "regular" and I hope I've not stepped on any "residential experts" who may have a differing opinion than mine. But I always say it's better to learn to ride a bike from someone with acquired balance - not from someone who believes falling down is part of the ride. Terry is a pretty seasoned "rider." I'm not in any particular fan club - indeed, I think of him as a "colleague" - I don't sugar up to
anybody. But it does bother me to see Terry referred to as an idiot.... I don't think
anybody here is an idiot... There's just some differences in how folks deal with this ich parasite, and some folks would rather eliminate it than accept it as a resident in their systems. Again, if you don't feed the fish, they'll starve. If you don't feed algae - it disappears. If you don't feed ich, it dies.
Well, my girls have been promised some of that nice mixed-berry pie and ice-cream, and it's a school night. I'm rather favouring a slice myself!
Our 18-month old is being more obnoxious than the whole lot of you could ever be with your e-hate,
so give up on that race!
Again, I hope nobody is offended, because everybody here has made some excellent, and correct points. I disagree with some statements, mainly that Terry is an idiot, and also with the conclusion that ich is "always present" in our systems.
I really agree with the one word someone just reminded us of.
H-O-B-B-Y
Good night, all!!!
Monty
