What's your Opinion about charging extra..for Qt fish? ....

[AXsignaturecorals]

Again.... My opinion...
You go into business accepting risk.. What business these days do not know there is a risk in making money or not?
If I am purchasing something from you and I am already paying a mark up of 3-5 times i expect it to live and not be told, well it was living in my store so its your fault...
You are not paying me in any way to accept the risk you took on when you started your business right?

Absolutely.. when you buy a fish it should be clean and should be eating...

 

[AXsignaturecorals]

Get what you're saying....by the same note...you should know that you'r buying a natural living thing, and that risk is then accepted by you. If i buy something and it dies i don't look to the store i bought it from. I took that risk. If when i buy from one store more things die than from another store. Then i learn where to shop and where not too.

Well said..

 

[piranhapat]

Finally MR has a good thread and discussion about Qt. Everybody is older enough to make a decision. You want to pay for service good for that person. But somewhere in between LFS has to be responsible for what he is selling. It's not his fault today because most of times when they received they shipment the good fish are gone. But that's the risk both parties are taken. The LFS don't no health of fish. Now the guy takes the fish home and it dies. Who is to blame? What's your opinion on this....I think it's a fair question to ask

 

[AXsignaturecorals]

Finally MR has a good thread and discussion about Qt. Everybody is older enough to make a decision. You want to pay for service good for that person. But somewhere in between LFS has to be responsible for what he is selling. It's not his fault today because most of times when they received they shipment the good fish are gone. But that's the risk both parties are taken. The LFS don't no health of fish. Now the guy takes the fish home and it dies. Who is to blame? What's your opinion on this....I think it's a fair question to ask

Good queation Pat..
I ask my customers a lot of questions to see if they are experienced aquatist..im not intereated in a 1time sale.. my goal is to build a trust with my customers.. what do i win by selling a customer a sick fish and risk the chance of having long term sales from not only the customer but those that he or she may or refer..(word of mouth) if the fish isnt eating i recommend it stays until it does.. if customer want it he or she is required to leave deposit for the fish and i will hold it till it does.. but if the fish is helthy and eating the responsibility to keep it alive transfers over to the customer once it leaves the store..

 

[Z06-Hec]

Dont get me wrong i agree with both sides... but i appreciate when the vendor or store goes above and beyond and that keeps me going back...
For instance I recently ordered a Purple Carpet from a vendor here... Well i showed up and the carpet looked like crap..
Vendor clearly said, im not charging you for this man... if it makes it then you can pay me later, but for now lets just try to get it back to healthy...
Something like that keeps me interested in returning to that vendor for future items...

As compared to another vendor on here, I purchased a carpet nem from them a while back and it died within 3 days of having it... When i told this store they just looked at me like so... what do you want me to do about it...
Its that attitude there and the way they constantly change their salt prices that keep me from traveling to Brooklyn to see them...

 

[marrone]

If the fish doesn't look good, say it covered in Ich or isn't swimming right or breathing heavily, then the LFS shouldn't sell it, but certain people would take a chance on buying that fish at a reduced amount, as they think they could cure it and for the reduce price it maybe worth it. The same with fish that don't eat, a lot of fish come in and wouldn't eat for a while. Now the fish can be very healthy, it just doesn't take to the type of food that it's being offer. Some people will take the risk that they can get the fish to start eating. So depending on the situation the blame, if there is even someone to blame, could go to either place.

The question of whether a fish is healthy, just because it looks good and is eating, isn't always the case. The fish could have parasites or a disease that just isn't showing at the moment, and any fish that is coming in to a LFS, and is sold right away, or fairly fast, there is no way that a LFS can possibly treat that fish in the time that it had it, regardless of what and how the LFS is doing to treat the fish.

 

[theMeat]

Also a good idea to check the water, for whatever you can, that comes in the bags from lfs tanks. Gives an insight that goes beyond what you can see, and what you're being told.

 

[kres1024]

If the fish doesn't look good, say it covered in Ich or isn't swimming right or breathing heavily, then the LFS shouldn't sell it, but certain people would take a chance on buying that fish at a reduced amount, as they think they could cure it and for the reduce price it maybe worth it. The same with fish that don't eat, a lot of fish come in and wouldn't eat for a while. Now the fish can be very healthy, it just doesn't take to the type of food that it's being offer. Some people will take the risk that they can get the fish to start eating. So depending on the situation the blame, if there is even someone to blame, could go to either place.

The question of whether a fish is healthy, just because it looks good and is eating, isn't always the case. The fish could have parasites or a disease that just isn't showing at the moment, and any fish that is coming in to a LFS, and is sold right away, or fairly fast, there is no way that a LFS can possibly treat that fish in the time that it had it, regardless of what and how the LFS is doing to treat the fish.

Absolutely right !
For example most wrasse can look good and eat but the majority of them come in with internal parasites ,and most stores might treat their entire systems therapeutically ,but that doesn't always help the fish ,as apoosed to treating that same fish isolated with the proper dosage and time frame

 

[AXsignaturecorals]

If the fish doesn't look good, say it covered in Ich or isn't swimming right or breathing heavily, then the LFS shouldn't sell it, but certain people would take a chance on buying that fish at a reduced amount, as they think they could cure it and for the reduce price it maybe worth it. The same with fish that don't eat, a lot of fish come in and wouldn't eat for a while. Now the fish can be very healthy, it just doesn't take to the type of food that it's being offer. Some people will take the risk that they can get the fish to start eating. So depending on the situation the blame, if there is even someone to blame, could go to either place.

The question of whether a fish is healthy, just because it looks good and is eating, isn't always the case. The fish could have parasites or a disease that just isn't showing at the moment, and any fish that is coming in to a LFS, and is sold right away, or fairly fast, there is no way that a LFS can possibly treat that fish in the time that it had it, regardless of what and how the LFS is doing to treat the fish.

That is very true.. my store is fairly new.. with that said I don't have fish flying out the door yet.. but when i see business has picked up and fish are moving much faster i have a process that will be in place called rotating shipments.. rotating shipments is having my tanks full of acclimated and treated fish in my displays wile having another shipment in QT.. this process works well... it has used across the country for many years.. but a lot of todays lfs are just interested in moving quantity instead of quality and are slinging fish like if its a frozen fish market. as a hobbiest i find that disrespectful to the hobby.. but if you are a customer and you are supporting that practice for a discount then you shouldnt complain when you get a sick fish that just wiped out your tank... (my option )

 

[clasystems]

I like the fact that all stores dont have the same business model or routine. This keeps me driving around checking things out. There are places I go where I can BS for a few hours and not buy a thing and there are places I go for a few minutes and just never say a word. Every store has their thing just like people. Some fish I buy not eating because I know I'll get them to eat. Others I wont touch. You gotta know what works for your tank. There is one thing thats been bothering me lately and the trend is to keep stock tanks in low salinity and NOT tell the customer they need to drip the fish. I mean what fish gonna live going from 18ppt to 33ppt quickly?? To me thats a minimum 3hr drip.

 

[piranhapat]

Finally MR has a good thread and discussion about Qt. Everybody is older enough to make a decision. You want to pay for service good for that person. But somewhere in between LFS has to be responsible for what he is selling. It's not his fault today because most of times when they received they shipment the good fish are gone. But that's the risk both parties are taken. The LFS don't no health of fish. Now the guy takes the fish home and it dies. Who is to blame? What's your opinion on this....I think it's a fair question to ask

No ones what's to answer the question yet. I don't want this to attack any LFS. I blame both parties. The seller should at least make sure the fish is eating. Forget the fact of parasites or you see ick or you don't. The buyer at least has a more of a chance to kept the fish alive. The more experience the more success the fish has. Buyer should QT the fish. Other wise risking your DT. Buyer should at least see the fish eating and make his own judgement by observing the best he can. I think once you walk out the store the risk is yours not LFS. There's a lot at play by salinity,temp, Ammonia, ect. So conclusion fish is eating and the most important your eye. We both play a role and most important stop losing money and keep fish alive. People will select where to buy they fish from they own success.

 

[piranhapat]

I like the fact that all stores dont have the same business model or routine. This keeps me driving around checking things out. There are places I go where I can BS for a few hours and not buy a thing and there are places I go for a few minutes and just never say a word. Every store has their thing just like people. Some fish I buy not eating because I know I'll get them to eat. Others I wont touch. You gotta know what works for your tank. There is one thing thats been bothering me lately and the trend is to keep stock tanks in low salinity and NOT tell the customer they need to drip the fish. I mean what fish gonna live going from 18ppt to 33ppt quickly?? To me thats a minimum 3hr drip.

+1 very good point and other reason people will lose fish...than the blaming starts..

 

[salpet]

its a shame that there are a lot lfs that keep on gouging costumers you should sell healthy specimens to begin with and to charge extra for qtiing fish that should that should have been done to begin with is a little petty just like the lfs store that buys a miny colony and then frags it and charges 10 times more than what they are worth its a screwed up way to do business. and after a while people just get sick of getting screwed

 

[AXsignaturecorals]

its a shame that there are a lot lfs that keep on gouging costumers you should sell healthy specimens to begin with and to charge extra for qtiing fish that should that should have been done to begin with is a little petty just like the lfs store that buys a miny colony and then frags it and charges 10 times more than what they are worth its a screwed up way to do business. And after a while people just get sick of getting screwed

+1

 

[marrone]

its a shame that there are a lot lfs that keep on gouging costumers you should sell healthy specimens to begin with and to charge extra for qtiing fish that should that should have been done to begin with is a little petty just like the lfs store that buys a miny colony and then frags it and charges 10 times more than what they are worth its a screwed up way to do business. and after a while people just get sick of getting screwed

Who said they're gouging customers? It's a service that they're offering, if you don't want it, and either want to QT yourself or don't QT at all, well that's your option. But just realize that if you're going to QT yourself it's going to cost money, not to mention time and possibly the lost of the fish during QT. Remember there are plenty of health fish, which are eating very well, but are loaded with parasites and need to be treated before you place them into your MT, most, if not all, LFS aren't going to be able to do this for the time needed.

On LA's Diver Den they charge more for their fish, but they QT and treat them before they make them available for sale. They charge more for this service and for some it's well worth, if you don't want to you can always buy from their site and the fish are shipped directly from California to you. I sure these fish are treated and are in good condition, just possible not as good as the ones coming out of the Diver Den.

 

[piranhapat]

Who said they're gouging customers? It's a service that they're offering, if you don't want it, and either want to QT yourself or don't QT at all, well that's your option. But just realize that if you're going to QT yourself it's going to cost money, not to mention time and possibly the lost of the fish during QT. Remember there are plenty of health fish, which are eating very well, but are loaded with parasites and need to be treated before you place them into your MT, most, if not all, LFS aren't going to be able to do this for the time needed.

On LA's Diver Den they charge more for their fish, but they QT and treat them before they make them available for sale. They charge more for this service and for some it's well worth, if you don't want to you can always buy from their site and the fish are shipped directly from California to you. I sure these fish are treated and are in good condition, just possible not as good as the ones coming out of the Diver Den.

I have to say if your in this hobby. I know everybody can't set up a QT. But you must figure a way to QT a fish. Even if LFS does Qt for you. But down the road a fish gets sick. Do to temp drop. What even it is you might have Qt down the road. I don't think the extra expense setting one up is costly. 20 gal tank $20 and hang on filter $25 and $30 for heater. Medicine $10-$20 say $100 tops. Plus last you for years. Just space for some people. I don't think expense is a breaker deal. The rest you should basically have.

 

[theMeat]

Wow

 

[ScubaDre]

I have to give it to Ralph at ax corals, he knows what he's talking about and has a passion about his business. Last week Friday I stopped by his store to checkout some corals since I haven't been there in a while. At first I thought Ralph was schooling this young kid about water quality but later on while listening to his conversation I found out he was refusing to sell a very expensive fish to this young kid without first knowing about his tank conditions. This kid wasn't doing any water changes and Ralph offer to test his water for free before selling him the fish. Honest and Professional Service. I was impressed

 

[Alfredo De La Fe]

My .02
Considering the store's actual price for fish, for example....
these black tangs that go for $1000.00 are bought for $399. I have wholesale lists...
So to pay more than double the price they paid i would expect it to be healthy and eating...
To go and charge me more than the $1000 you already charge for it to guarantee me its eating and healthy is not something I am willing to do...
Same example... Store pays $100 for a red/Blue/Purple carpet nem and charge me $600-$800 for it, i would hope it was already QT for at least a week to ensure its ok...

Just my .02

I am not in the business, but for a VERY BRIEF time about 20 years ago I used to transship. I can tell you from experience, a typical markup has to be more than 200% because of losses. Otherwise the shop can go out of business.

Most people don't realize the headaches. One flight gets delayed, then customs decides to take forever to clear your shipment and next thing you know, you just lost $5,000. Yes, the wholesale supplier offers a guarantee, but this does not cover shipping, box charges, rebagging and customs fees which are more than 75% of the cost.

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[Alfredo De La Fe]

Dont get me wrong i agree with both sides... but i appreciate when the vendor or store goes above and beyond and that keeps me going back...
For instance I recently ordered a Purple Carpet from a vendor here... Well i showed up and the carpet looked like crap..
Vendor clearly said, im not charging you for this man... if it makes it then you can pay me later, but for now lets just try to get it back to healthy...
Something like that keeps me interested in returning to that vendor for future items...

As compared to another vendor on here, I purchased a carpet nem from them a while back and it died within 3 days of having it... When i told this store they just looked at me like so... what do you want me to do about it...
Its that attitude there and the way they constantly change their salt prices that keep me from traveling to Brooklyn to see them...

I had an experience with a vendor at a swap. Bought a clam and my clam and several other customers clams died. They extended a credit and didn't bother telling me it had an expiration date. That $100 fleecing has cost them THOUSANDS of dollars in my business and THOUSANDS more that I shared my story with. On the other end, I have met a few guys here that are sincere and really love this hobby. They may not be very business savvy, but I will support them 1000% in any way I can.

Ralph- your numbers are pretty low. I bet your overhead is easily 10K a month. You are not factoring in a lot of things... I honestly want to make it to your shop, everything I have seen from you screams that you are a standup guy.

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