Matt's 225g Build Thread

[kimoyo]

IMHO, to really get a gyre (like that guy was talking about) working in a tank longer than 2' you would need at least 4 vortechs. On one end, two in the front facing the same direction one above the other, and on the other end two in the back. You couldn't pulse them. To me, its important to have the flow go in the opposite direction every 30mins to 1hour, now your talking 8 vortechs but with only 4 on at the same time to rotate the water in one direction or the opposite. With your tank being 6' and 2.5' wide and with a nice aquascape (not like a raceway with a gyre) it still might not work. But IMO with a pump on a close loop with a switching device it will be much easier to make happen. The switching device (the switching has to be a longer time period) allows you to change directions and you can have outlets in the middle of the tank to help drive the rotation instead of only on the ends.

The vortechs/tunzes are a great option, they just have their limits, just like pumps on close loops do.

 

[Awibrandy]

Awibrandy and Russianmd,

Could you post pics of your sandbeds for me and list the type of sand you are using?

Actually, I would love to see everybodies.

thanks in advace

As per your request:
Here is a pic of new fine grain ESV.

And here it is after a few months in my reef with all the sand sifters.

By the way I see you're in Astoria. Not that far from me, if you'd like to come over and see for yourself you are welcomed to do so. :groupflip

 

[meschaefer]

To me, its important to have the flow go in the opposite direction every 30mins to 1hour

Why? I am not trying to be difficult, but I assume your answer will be somewhere along the line of "random flow", yet I have yet to see any study or publication that describes why "random flow" is important, as opposed to just flow.

I also think you are over estimating the amount of pumps needed to get the water moving. If you had a Gyre tank set up, you theortically would only need on pump. I generally feel that in a tank that does not have a deliniated partition, i.e. using live rock, you need at least two pumps.

 

[kimoyo]

Why? I am not trying to be difficult, but I assume your answer will be somewhere along the line of "random flow", yet I have yet to see any study or publication that describes why "random flow" is important, as opposed to just flow.

Not at all Matt. Corals get light from one side and grow fine on all sides, they can also eat on one side and be fine everywhere.

I want to hit the corals for both sides with water for one reason, growth patterns. If you hit them with strong flow from one side they grow different. I want my corals to be densely packed and symmetric.

I also think you are over estimating the amount of pumps needed to get the water moving. If you had a Gyre tank set up, you theortically would only need on pump. I generally feel that in a tank that does not have a deliniated partition, i.e. using live rock, you need at least two pumps.

That could be true, I can only go off what I've seen others do and my own experience with 6100's in a tank. Before those article came out, when I had my 4' 120 up I instinctively tried to have that flow in my tank. I'm posting some pics below but let me know if you want them erased. I change my flow a few times. The first is how I set it up in the beginning, then other two show it later.


(click to enlarge)

I setup the flow trying to do exactly what were talking about here. First one 6100 on each side, on one at a time. And then both on the same side, on one at a time. With the height in my tank (2' tall) and a normal aquascape it just didn't work as well. The stream from the tunze wasn't tall enough, strong enough or narrow enough for me to feel any flow on the backside of the flow revolution or near the bottom.

Tunzes are great for certain things, but if your interested in a gyre type situation (and I want to do something similar) I don't think you can use just one. The only reason why I'm saying this is because I tried it already, but maybe I did something wrong.

 

[meschaefer]

Leave the pictures, it will help anyone who tries to read this thread down the line.

I agree that in all but the most perfect circumstances, you can't create a Gyre with just one pump/powerhead. In order to do that you really need to install a glass/acrylic partition as discussed in the article. If you are creating a divide with live rock, you need at least two pumps to "tell the water where it needs to go"


As stated, my plan is to eventually end up with two vortechs. They would be placed on opposite ends of the tank, in opposing corners. I had also given consideration to using two sea swirls, on my returns. After this converstaion, I am leaning in that direction, albeit a little bit further down the road.

 

[meschaefer]

As per your request:
Here is a pic of new fine grain ESV.

And here it is after a few months in my reef with all the sand sifters.

By the way I see you're in Astoria. Not that far from me, if you'd like to come over and see for yourself you are welcomed to do so. :groupflip

I could be wrong, but the second picture looks like diatoms. If you disturb the sand bed, is the sand white beneath the surface?

 

[Awibrandy]

I could be wrong, but the second picture looks like diatoms. If you disturb the sand bed, is the sand white beneath the surface?

Yes, it is diatom, and I have tons of nassirius, turbos, hermits, 1 sand sifting star fish, 3 or 4 gobies, and 3 tile star fish. It seems that diatoms is all that can grow in my tank other then the corals themselves. Not sure if that's a bad thing, or a good thing. I had posted an article here on MR concerning diatoms which stated something about them eating carbon dixozide, and giving off oxygen.
In any case that is what I am referring to, the southdown sand never did that. It basically never changed colors on the surface. The only color change was in the middle of it. The only way I was able to see that change was throught the sides of the glass where you could see under the surface.

 

[meschaefer]

It been awhile, but....

It has been awhile since I had an update. Not much has happened, as my summers are to busy to get anything done fast. I did make some progress though.


Marco Rocks was having a sale, with $5 shipping per box so I picked up a 50lb box of Fiji and a 25lb box of Tonga Shelf.

The Fiji rock is really nice. I got 3-4 really nice size pieces, another 10 or so decent size pieces and a whole lot of smaller pieces. It was shipped via UPS and the rock came loosely wrapped in bubble wrap. Since the rock is weighed dry, you get more of it than if it had been weighed wet.


This is an over view of all the non-rubble size pieces, and then a close up of two of the larger pieces with a beer bottle thrown in for size reference.

This is a pic of the "rubble", which I guess is from shipping "damage",

The Tonga Shelf rock was slightly more meticulously wrapped, but it does seem to be more fragile. A couple of pieces broke, leaving me with a smaller piece than I had started with. Also the Tonga is much more dense than the Fiji, so you get allot less "volume".

To get an idea of the size of the rock, the following pic is of the piece above on top of a five gallon bucket and a pic of some of the other rock with my trusty beer bottle.

As I said, I really like the Fiji rock that I got. If I had to do it over, I would think twice about the Tonga. Because of the shipping damage, the pieces where smaller than I was hoping for and it costs significantly more than the Fiji. I guess I will really have to wait until I can start aquascaping before I can pass judgment.

 

[House of Laughter]

Matt,

I would drop them a note with your pictures of the broken shelf - they are usually really good at replacing the broken stuff (within reason, they won't replace your rubble

Coming along nicely

House

 

[meschaefer]

It's alright. The rock came in a little over a week ago, it just the first time I had an opportunity to take pictures. I have just been way to busy.

 

[Craig]

Toss Mark from Marco Rocks an email with the pic. He will more than likely send you a replacement rock. I had the same issue. He sent a replacement the next day.

 

[meschaefer]

Alright, I sent him an e-mail with the pic showing the broken rock. I will advise as to what happens.

 

[meschaefer]

I got a response from Marc at Marco Rocks, regarding the tonga shelf that had been damaged in shipping. He is going to send me out some replacement pieces ASAP at no cost to me. That's what I call service.

He also told me that I can drill a hole on each side of the broken pieces and insert a piece of acrylic rod. A little bit of epoxy and some rubble over the crack, and it will look as good as new.

 

[meschaefer]

I just got a tracking number for the replacement Tonga shelf pieces. The package weighs 13lbs (the original 25lb box shipped to me weighed 27 lbs.)

Very exciting, and I am going to try and "repair" the rock that broke during shipping. Once it is delivered I will post some pics of the replacement pieces.

 

[meschaefer]

A couple of weeks back, I picked up a 120 gallon tank from Rich (Jackson) for a really good price. (FREE - Thanks Rich!!) It is a standard size 120 gallon made by Glass Cages with Starphire on the front. I am going to use it as a sump. Rich was going to throw it out, as it has a small crack in the lower right front corner (You can see it in the pic below, just to the right of the beer bottle). It was there for 6 months before he took the tank down, I was gong to patch it but after looking at I am going to leave it alone. The eurobracing is also cracked on one side as well, witch I will patch up.

The tank was reef ready, so I had to remove the center overflow. It took me over an hour to get the overflow out. There was a learning curve involved and think I could get it out allot faster if I had to do it again. This leaves me with two holes in the bottom of the tank, witch will get a patch over it as well.

The big question is... how do I want to partition it up? I will be running an external skimmer, and need to drill one side to go to my return pump (reeflo dart). I will have two overflow coming into the sump and I need space for my heaters, probes, phosban reactor. etc etc/. I also want to have enough space in the area just before the return pump that I can easily drain out 50 gallons for a water change without having to turn off the return pump. Any ideas?

 

[pecan2phat]

Matt,
I would have thought about leaving the overflow in place if you didn't need the room. Figure you can plug the 2 holes and have the tank drains dump into the overflow thereby eliminating the use of socks for bubble trap purposes. Just a thought.

 

[KathyC]

I thought the same thing as Warren regarding use of the overflow when I saw your post..
I think NapoliNJ (Mike) did something similar to your idea about draining from the sump for the water change. I'll drop him a PM and ask him to be sure to read this thread.

 

[pecan2phat]

If you run enough water volume in your sump and still have the necessary space for the drain off volume from the display, then you can definitely perform water changes from your sump.

ie: 120g sump running with 85g of approx volume,
Display drain back = 15g when power is cut off.
Minimum water volume for sump not to cavitate return pump = 35g

You could then perform a 50g water change with the tank still running. Just place a wye adaptor after the pump and then a "good quality" ball valve on both return ends of the wye. Buy 2 identical unions and glue/thread one with a hose barb and the other with a plug. Attach vinyl tubing to the barbed union to perform a water change by opening the non-display return portion of the wye. Afterwards, replace union end with the one that has the cap for added piece of mind in case the valve leaks or gets inadvertantly turned.

I would take a permanant marker and mark off on a corner of the sump every 10g for visual reference.

 

[meschaefer]

I had thought about keeping the overflow as a "bubble tower" but could never get the layout to work. It is actually not as easy as it would seem to have enough volume in the last compartment so that you can remove 50 gallons and still have the return pump working. I have been running the number trying to figure out the dimensions, and I may be only able to do a 35 gallon water change wich is probably easier. I need to take a look around, but I think rubbermaid makes a 40 gallon Brute trash can that I can use to make up water. If that's the case being able to drain off 35 gallons may be adequate.

I hadn't thought about marking off 10 gallon increments, but I was going to mark off the water level, and the "water change" level.

 

[NapoliNewJersey]

A couple of weeks back, I picked up a 120 gallon tank from Rich (Jackson) for a really good price. (FREE - Thanks Rich!!) It is a standard size 120 gallon made by Glass Cages with Starphire on the front. I am going to use it as a sump. Rich was going to throw it out, as it has a small crack in the lower right front corner (You can see it in the pic below, just to the right of the beer bottle). It was there for 6 months before he took the tank down, I was gong to patch it but after looking at I am going to leave it alone. The eurobracing is also cracked on one side as well, witch I will patch up.

The tank was reef ready, so I had to remove the center overflow. It took me over an hour to get the overflow out. There was a learning curve involved and think I could get it out allot faster if I had to do it again. This leaves me with two holes in the bottom of the tank, witch will get a patch over it as well.

The big question is... how do I want to partition it up? I will be running an external skimmer, and need to drill one side to go to my return pump (reeflo dart). I will have two overflow coming into the sump and I need space for my heaters, probes, phosban reactor. etc etc/. I also want to have enough space in the area just before the return pump that I can easily drain out 50 gallons for a water change without having to turn off the return pump. Any ideas?

Hey, KathyC told me to come and check this thread out. Great thread so far. I had the same problem and didn't want to turn off my return pump. In your situation you would have to dedicate over a 1/3 of your sump as a return area. It's not bad because you can put your heaters and probes in that area. You'll have to shut your heater off because when you drain your water it will turn on since the probe will give the controller the rooms temp and not the water temp.

The way my tank is set up for changes is my drain is t-ed off so I can connect a 1" flex tube and instead of water going into my sump it goes into my bucket/rubbermaid container. I don't turn off my return but I lower it enough so that the water in my sump is raised very high and then drain the water and add by dripping the water back in ... my tank has 2 koralia 4's so the flow uptop doesn't really get effected by the change.

When all is said and done I turn my flow all the way up on my return and ajust the ball valves so that my level is ok again. I do about a 20 gallon change a week on my 120 .. it's alot less than 10% considering my system is a total of 160.

I'll be adding a 24 gallon frag/prop tank and a 29 gallon biocube that I've already drilled ... just waiting on a new stand ... by then my water change will be only 5%. :scratchch