Netcaught fish from Filipino collectors rising

[clarionreef]

There is something in the newbie eco mind set that blocks the understanding of gross vs. net income in business calculations.

The two are used freely, misunderstood and gross numbers are offered as proof of unseemly and improper profits.
[ Like how the police inflate the value of heroin when they take it away from the dealers ]
The trades gross figures are used as proof of the ease to which huge profits could easily be taxed by traders in the eco-issues.
As eco-issues get traded now on the grant market like stocks and bonds...the traders themselves become more and more money focused and less and less field and people focused.
No wonder the passion we used to see in environmentalists is not there any more. No wonder the biggest profits in this trade have been relized by the people who have squandered 10 million without catching a fish.
I used to be green as in environmental green...now its perhaps green with envy as far less sincere make all the money off the trades troubles.
Marketing issues ...and looting them for free money contributions is not neccessarily solving them. In fact, it can prevent the solving of them.

The greatest money grubbing there is now is not in the business community anymore...its in the business parasite community.
Oh well...back to work.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

GreshamH,

8)

Well now I can understand that

8) right back at yah

 

[clarionreef]

The group I work with in Tonga has an excess of net collectors and is sending some back home to the Philippines.
What prompted this is a rising tendency to primma-donna-ism among some of the guys that have been working the South Pacific too long and are insistant on calling their own shots and determining their own policies and procedures in the field. ie. non decompression of fishes and the use of crowbars to collect flame hawks.
Usually they get away with this as their bosses have never understood fish collecting better then them and therefore accept whatever they want to do.
Now, two are being swapped for better trained netsman who must agree to the conditions as basis for employment;

1. disdain the crowbar as a collecting tool
2.decompress fishes as mandatory policy
violations win a trip home.

The divers defense was...."everyone does it this way..."
The truth is net collecting alone has been a free ride with earlier trained people without follow up supervision. They did discard the cyanide but kept other bad habits.
Only commercial staff /employee policies and rules can follow up sustainably and permanantly.
As a netcaught company, the rules are simple;
We're all netcaught so it ain't nuthin special anymore....but the obstinate and pig headed insistance in ruining reefs and fishes regardless will stop as per company policy.
2 or 3 strikes and you're fired.
Maturity and progress in this reform dogma has to occur and from now on just being netcaught ain't enough.
Steve

 

[WayneSallee]

That's good to hear that they are taking a stronger stand on proper fishing.

Yep, net caught, isn't the only thing. Everything from when the fish is in the ocean to when the fish reaches the final customer should be looked at.

So what company is this that you are referring to?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
[email protected]

 

[spawner]

e.

The divers defense was...."everyone does it this way..."

We use that everyday here in florida as well. Must be universal.

 

[Anonymous]

e.

The divers defense was...."everyone does it this way..."

We use that everyday here in florida as well. Must be universal.

Do you really need quin to catch copepods and shrimp?

Put down the squirt bottle Andy :lol:

 

[clarionreef]

Usually they get away with this as their bosses have never understood fish collecting better then them and therefore accept whatever they want to do.

Most stations are run and or controlled by money people.
Money people are just not fish people. If the divers say they need crowbars, the money people just looked the other way. Some accepted the coral breaking without hesitation and even shipped over crowbars from Home Depot.
and there is a huge difference between money driven people and fish driven people..
Steve

 

[Jaime Baquero]

The money people are within the industry, they know about the negative impact of this trade on coral reefs but do not care. If you know that "some" ship over crowbars from Home Depot... Why you just look the other way?.

Aren't you contributing to that coral breaking?.

Fish driven people are driven by the money they can make from it.

 

[clarionreef]

Look the other way from crowbar purchases?
Look the other way?
Did you say that?
You mean as if I were out shopping w/ them at the time?

As the whistle blower [ again] on the coral breaking and prescriber for solution where does the aren't you contributing to it remark come from?
Every expose there has been has come from within the trade...giving the ammo to outsiders who have never shot a rabbit yet.

"Fish driven people are driven by the money they can make from it...." huh???Then that would make them money people wouldn't it?
Does your fish business run on barter or swapping serivces?

Perhaps a socialist fish collecting co-op or a socialist importer using government funds?
Admit it Jaime.
I know you really agree with most of my postings but set aside your conscience in favor of personal retorts. I am the closest thing on this board to an ally and you really should be nicer.
If you are so in disagreement with my quite nearly socialist, pro-fisherman ramblings, I can only imagine how you must hate everyone else.
Steve

 

[WayneSallee]

It's funny how some people call themselves biologists, and come to reef aquarium boards and spout out such comments.

We had one on rec.aquaria.marine.reefs that was spouting out how knowledgeable he was, and yet he did not even know how to keep corals alive :lol:

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
[email protected]

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Look the other way from crowbar purchases?
Look the other way?
Did you say that?
You mean as if I were out shopping w/ them at the time?

As the whistle blower [ again] on the coral breaking and prescriber for solution where does the aren't you contributing to it remark come from?
Every expose there has been has come from within the trade...giving the ammo to outsiders who have never shot a rabbit yet.

"Fish driven people are driven by the money they can make from it...." huh???Then that would make them money people wouldn't it?
Does your fish business run on barter or swapping serivces?

Perhaps a socialist fish collecting co-op or a socialist importer using government funds?
Admit it Jaime.
I know you really agree with most of my postings but set aside your conscience in favor of personal retorts. I am the closest thing on this board to an ally and you really should be nicer.
If you are so in disagreement with my quite nearly socialist, pro-fisherman ramblings, I can only imagine how you must hate everyone else.
Steve

People have told you that isn't what you write, it's how you choose to write it.... but you do not listen.

I think that you are a good trainer and also someone how really knows about MO husbandry, and the trade in general. It is a shame that all that knowledge and experience is being used only in a very small scale.
Why people do not want to listen to what you have been saying for decades?

I do not hate anyone. What I really hate, is the fact that we have been talking about the same issues for over two decades and nothing has changed. Collectors are poorer, coral reefs are in worse shape that before, fish populations have been overexploited, unnecesary mortality is still evident due to poor handling and holding.... The industry as a whole doesn't react....I hate that.

My business is successful because of my knowledge and quality of my services. I have marine aquariums that were set up back in 1989 and some of the inhabitants are the same. Good husbandry practices is the key.

I must admit that I'm making good money in this business without buying too many fish, my main customer, a large contract, has it's aquarium set up since 1999 the fish and invertebrates are the same.

My advice to new customers is to set up fresh water aquariums.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

It's funny how some people call themselves biologists, and come to reef aquarium boards and spout out such comments.

We had one on rec.aquaria.marine.reefs that was spouting out how knowledgeable he was, and yet he did not even know how to keep corals alive :lol:

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
[email protected]

Waynesallee,

I'm a marine biologist and have been in this trade since 1985. I have had the opportunity of working the different levels of the MO trade including; collectors( I worked in the Philippines and know first hand the problems the trade of MO has in that country), exporters, importers, retailers and aquarium hobbyists. Until now I have set up up to 900 aquaria . Corals other invertebrates, MO and freshwater. I can e-mail you some pictures of my work if you want.

 

[WayneSallee]

Waynesallee,

I'm a marine biologist and have been in this trade since 1985. I have had the opportunity of working the different levels of the MO trade including; collectors( I worked in the Philippines and know first hand the problems the trade of MO has in that country), exporters, importers, retailers and aquarium hobbyists. Until now I have set up up to 900 aquaria . Corals other invertebrates, MO and freshwater. I can e-mail you some pictures of my work if you want.

Sounds interesting. Do you have a web site?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
[email protected]

 

[Jaime Baquero]

No, I don't. To tell you the truth I do not need one. I rather to keep my business the way it is... small.

 

[Anonymous]

Look the other way from crowbar purchases?
Look the other way?
Did you say that?
You mean as if I were out shopping w/ them at the time?

As the whistle blower [ again] on the coral breaking and prescriber for solution where does the aren't you contributing to it remark come from?
Every expose there has been has come from within the trade...giving the ammo to outsiders who have never shot a rabbit yet.

"Fish driven people are driven by the money they can make from it...." huh???Then that would make them money people wouldn't it?
Does your fish business run on barter or swapping serivces?

Perhaps a socialist fish collecting co-op or a socialist importer using government funds?
Admit it Jaime.
I know you really agree with most of my postings but set aside your conscience in favor of personal retorts. I am the closest thing on this board to an ally and you really should be nicer.
If you are so in disagreement with my quite nearly socialist, pro-fisherman ramblings, I can only imagine how you must hate everyone else.
Steve

People have told you that isn't what you write, it's how you choose to write it.... but you do not listen.

I think that you are a good trainer and also someone how really knows about MO husbandry, and the trade in general. It is a shame that all that knowledge and experience is being used only in a very small scale.
Why people do not want to listen to what you have been saying for decades?

I do not hate anyone. What I really hate, is the fact that we have been talking about the same issues for over two decades and nothing has changed. Collectors are poorer, coral reefs are in worse shape that before, fish populations have been overexploited, unnecesary mortality is still evident due to poor handling and holding.... The industry as a whole doesn't react....I hate that.

My business is successful because of my knowledge and quality of my services. I have marine aquariums that were set up back in 1989 and some of the inhabitants are the same. Good husbandry practices is the key.

I must admit that I'm making good money in this business without buying too many fish, my main customer, a large contract, has it's aquarium set up since 1999 the fish and invertebrates are the same.

My advice to new customers is to set up fresh water aquariums.

er- fw fish habitats are following the same suit as sw habitats-the blue eyed pleco (one teeny example only) can no longer be found for the trade after being nearly wiped out to extinction

many fw fish that are mass produced on farms do alot of harm to the environment-from waste runoff, to the development on new antibiotc resistant strains of disease (remember the 'angelfish virus' from the far east in the late '80's early 90's, and the soon to be imposed moratorium on ALL imports of goldfish and koi due to the koi aids virus? )

you would just have the 'pressure on habitat buck' passed to fw because you don't care about it as much as your precious reefs ? :lol:

:roll:

 

[Rascal]

Jaime,

As a marine biologist, how have you transfered those talents toward the 'industry'? Do you set up aquariums? Do you consult? Do you provide aquarium service? Could you post some of your work here?

Butch

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Rascal,

I have had the opportunity of working with stores dealing with MO in Ottawa and Gatineau. I have trained staff of some stores in different aspects such as fish/inv husbandry and water quality criteria.

I have been speaker at different marine aquarium clubs one in Toronto and aquarium clubs in Ottawa and Quebec city. The goal of the talks has been to increase awareness of hobbyists regarding the trade of marine ornamentals from the Philippines. Also I was speaker at MACNA X in Los Angeles where I presented the problems facing the MO industry in the Philippines. I spoke about possible solutions. I gave a talk at the Waikiki aquarium, also I presented the problems of the MO industry in the Philippines during the first Marine Ornamentals in Hawaii.

I worked, as a volunteer, with the Federation of Fish Collectors of the Philippines helping them to improve handling and holding techniques of net caught fish. Also, I worked with the Federation helping to set up a holding facility in Manila, helping them to market their fish in North America. If you check reefs.org library you can find a talk about that subject in this forum.

I have worked as a consultan for the Museum of Natural Sciences here in Ottawa and the Museum of Civilization in Gatineau, Québec. Organizing educational workshops about coral reefs. Along with Dr. Don McAllister (deceased) worked as a consultant for the Philippines' Coral reef display at the Shedd aquarium.

I have a consulting and aquarium service business and doing very well.

 

[Rascal]

Jaime -

As 'seasoned' as you are then...with all your credentials, how can you suggest then that Steve had anything to do with the 'shipping of crowbars from Home Depot"? It seems quite irresponsible...and almost vindictive, to foster that argument.

 

[Anonymous]

This thread has gone to far ahead of the sniping to deal with it in a useful way, so instead of locking the thread I am issuing an ultimatum:

Steve and Jamie,

Stop sniping and insulting, or I am going to ban you. You both know what I am talking about as we have discussed it many times. I don't care who started it or if you feel the other one did it more. I am tired. RDO is tired. The industry is tired. Please, I beg you both, please be respectful and keep in mind that you are both trying to help.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Thales,

I got the message. I understand, everyone including myself is tired of this.
Constructive critiscism and positive dialog is needed to move forward.

Jaime