Then you think wrong. Think of all of the nasty stuff that has gone on over the past few years. How many times have I shut up because someone has challenged me? How many times have I "lost passion" because someone didn't agree with me? ESPECIALLY when dealing with the idiots in AMDA? I'll answer for you. NONE.
I agree. I have changed my views somewhat on the USL. I have alluded to that recently and there was a long discussion about it on here sometime in the past. My husband has always felt as you have. I felt differently. I eventually came around to his way of thinking.
MaryHM":1bchq3i5 said:
Your husband sounds like a sensible guy. I don't have easy access to most of the AMDA postings. They live on an old hard on a computer I no longer use. I wasn't coming over here in those early days of the AMDA wars. Seems like your post was about the list for stuff that grows to large if that helps. Elwyn and I were both against the list. I hate to appear as not caring about the fish, but I just couldn't understand how scientists were using such a list. They are people that kill and cut up stuff just to see what it looks like inside. I thought they would be more concerned with sustainability. I still don't get it.
Mitch
I think anyone who dealt with the people that I had to deal with during the reign of the last BOD would agree with me. You got it out for me lately, Len? Wayne called a new member of this board "crap" earlier (me too, but I don't care) and I didn't see you reprimanding him.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Mitch,
That was well summed up.
They will fail of course but the thing is the collateral damage in the meantime.
From the two collecting site failure to an attempt to rule the industry failure. This group has a dismal track record so far and the inability to listen and learn will be their undoing.
The mission concepts are better and nobler then they...and they are not nearly good enough to pull this thing off.
From the Reefcheck social club, the CCIF eggheads and our very own MAC service guys and coral reef politicians..
These folks do not have the talent to do much more then convince each other of their importance and relevance.
They will spend record amounts of money to no avail and less acclaim.
Then they will blame the poor divers and working class dealers for not supporting them [ ie. give THEM more money ].
When 30 million is gone...they will ask for more.
Clearly they need some competition. In scuba certification...there are plenty of certifying agencies. It would be easy to beat them in the results department...AS THEIR GUARANTEED FAILURES IN THE FIELD WILL SANDBAG THEIR SUBSEQUENT EFFORTS.
They made a huge error in thinking the Philippines will carry a huge load of supply to maintain them...until they can get Indo up to speed.
Only Fiji will fly for them and not because they have merit...but because the US owners of Fijis stations will allow their existing netcaught fiji fish to be used to validate them. Without this tactic, their pending failures in S E Asia would be extremely embarrassing.
Working with poor fisherman takes less elitism and more genuine goodwill and local cultural and technical understanding. They are too proud and arrogant to take this advice and will continue as before.
Their iron clad rule about using dorky white people and foreign city people is amazing and dooms them from the start...and in every village. The smiles they generate will turn to laughter as they leave...
Locals will focus however on the micro loans that are offered to buy their way into the villages and to buy loyalties away from other exporters. Other exporters will have contermeasures and will not go quietly.
Somewhere will come a flashpoint. Somewhere the foreign invasion and takeover attempt is going to get somebody hurt.
Environmental sustainability and cyanide fish have put the exporters back on their heels...power grabs and taking over supply lines with foreign money however are going to bring them back into the fray.
Repeat... They will not go quietly....
Steve
That was well summed up.
They will fail of course but the thing is the collateral damage in the meantime.
From the two collecting site failure to an attempt to rule the industry failure. This group has a dismal track record so far and the inability to listen and learn will be their undoing.
The mission concepts are better and nobler then they...and they are not nearly good enough to pull this thing off.
From the Reefcheck social club, the CCIF eggheads and our very own MAC service guys and coral reef politicians..
These folks do not have the talent to do much more then convince each other of their importance and relevance.
They will spend record amounts of money to no avail and less acclaim.
Then they will blame the poor divers and working class dealers for not supporting them [ ie. give THEM more money ].
When 30 million is gone...they will ask for more.
Clearly they need some competition. In scuba certification...there are plenty of certifying agencies. It would be easy to beat them in the results department...AS THEIR GUARANTEED FAILURES IN THE FIELD WILL SANDBAG THEIR SUBSEQUENT EFFORTS.
They made a huge error in thinking the Philippines will carry a huge load of supply to maintain them...until they can get Indo up to speed.
Only Fiji will fly for them and not because they have merit...but because the US owners of Fijis stations will allow their existing netcaught fiji fish to be used to validate them. Without this tactic, their pending failures in S E Asia would be extremely embarrassing.
Working with poor fisherman takes less elitism and more genuine goodwill and local cultural and technical understanding. They are too proud and arrogant to take this advice and will continue as before.
Their iron clad rule about using dorky white people and foreign city people is amazing and dooms them from the start...and in every village. The smiles they generate will turn to laughter as they leave...
Locals will focus however on the micro loans that are offered to buy their way into the villages and to buy loyalties away from other exporters. Other exporters will have contermeasures and will not go quietly.
Somewhere will come a flashpoint. Somewhere the foreign invasion and takeover attempt is going to get somebody hurt.
Environmental sustainability and cyanide fish have put the exporters back on their heels...power grabs and taking over supply lines with foreign money however are going to bring them back into the fray.
Repeat... They will not go quietly....
Steve
Yes Mary, I'm out for you. It's not your content. It's only because of you. Nothing you do is at fault. It's all me and my unfair bias.
If you couldn't tell, that was sarcasm. I hear the "you're out for me" quite often, just as often as I hear "but the other guy did so and so and he wasn't rebuked." I missed Wayne's comment. It's really that simple. Not like it matters, really; that someone else misbehaved shouldn't/doesn't give you justification to misbehave as well.
Ah, the life of a moderator .....
If you couldn't tell, that was sarcasm. I hear the "you're out for me" quite often, just as often as I hear "but the other guy did so and so and he wasn't rebuked." I missed Wayne's comment. It's really that simple. Not like it matters, really; that someone else misbehaved shouldn't/doesn't give you justification to misbehave as well.
Ah, the life of a moderator .....
MaryHM":1vvqsgva said:
If you're going to accuse me of something Mitch, be prepared to back it up with fact. You stated earlier that you "checked the dates". Recheck and let me know.
And yes, Morgan is a very sensible guy.
Mary,
I found some hard copies of some of the jucier ones. It was around Jan. 8 2002. We were talking about Pandora's box and holy hand grenades. PM your fax number and I fax a few over for you. Stuff was hot and heavy in early Jan. 2002. That's for sure.
Mitch
I'll see what I can find for that emoticon. In the meantime, the dangerous winky emoticon will have to suffice.
All we moderators are asking for is for you guys be civil. We have never been interested in stifling your expression of ideas/opinions. How much content have we editted? How many threads have we deleted? If for no other reason, conduct yourselves civilly out of respect for the nature of this forum.
All we moderators are asking for is for you guys be civil. We have never been interested in stifling your expression of ideas/opinions. How much content have we editted? How many threads have we deleted? If for no other reason, conduct yourselves civilly out of respect for the nature of this forum.
That was sarcasm as well. Sheesh Len, I don't think you have it out for me. If you did, you'd ban me and be done with it. It was a comment in response to Wayne saying what he did today and Mitch even went back and pointed it out. I don't care about insults hurled at me. I feel quite confident in myself and my ability to defend myself against whatever someone wants to accuse me of. BRING IT ON!!! :wink:
lol
pardon me for sayin so,....
but wayne's been slandering people left right and center here for well over a year, every single time he's simply been asked to back up a previously slandering/false statement
the only difference is the air of seeming condescension and self importance he wraps his insults in while doling them out on a daily basis
lately he's been getting more and more abusive, insulting, and condescending
jb posts material directly calling people here mental nuts,or strongly insinuating that they're 'area 51 loons'
i don't recall either of them being asked to stop directly and in public
i think the only one he (wayne)hasn't taken continual pot shots at is jb, and , quite frankly, his posts over the past two years in other forums while wearing his 'tang police' hat in the main forum have been downright caustic and abusive to first time posters on the bb
his posts here are just downright trollish, plain and simple, (AS I SEE THEM) add nothing constructive to any conversation, and it's painfully obvious that all he does here is toot a horn for the sake of tootin it, and call people here names, or chide them in a manner reminiscent of a kindergarten teacher to a 4 yr old
not meaning to justify anything, but it would be nice to finally see some truly fair and balanced moderating on your part len, if you're gonna
this isn't the sump after all
my $0.02
i think one of the requirements for posting in this forum should be the posters direct association (owner/founder, or staff/employee) w/an org or business that's involved in industry issues
it would certainly eliminate alot of the useless obfuscation that non-stop name callers keep adding to some of the more important threads here
in spite of wayne's abusive posts, (it's most definitely not 'a comment', or even a handful of comments)most here play his game for a post or two, laff at the material, and try to move on, yet HE insists on continually trying to push the envelope
kalk, as much as i can't stand his style and content, at least doesn't resort to that childish type of behavior-i've yet to see him get personal in his rants, and he's never insulted anyone personally because he doesn't like what they post
for that at least, i respect him
wish i could say the same for wayne and jb
/off rant
pardon me for sayin so,....
but wayne's been slandering people left right and center here for well over a year, every single time he's simply been asked to back up a previously slandering/false statement
the only difference is the air of seeming condescension and self importance he wraps his insults in while doling them out on a daily basis
lately he's been getting more and more abusive, insulting, and condescending
jb posts material directly calling people here mental nuts,or strongly insinuating that they're 'area 51 loons'
i don't recall either of them being asked to stop directly and in public
i think the only one he (wayne)hasn't taken continual pot shots at is jb, and , quite frankly, his posts over the past two years in other forums while wearing his 'tang police' hat in the main forum have been downright caustic and abusive to first time posters on the bb
his posts here are just downright trollish, plain and simple, (AS I SEE THEM) add nothing constructive to any conversation, and it's painfully obvious that all he does here is toot a horn for the sake of tootin it, and call people here names, or chide them in a manner reminiscent of a kindergarten teacher to a 4 yr old
not meaning to justify anything, but it would be nice to finally see some truly fair and balanced moderating on your part len, if you're gonna
this isn't the sump after all
my $0.02
i think one of the requirements for posting in this forum should be the posters direct association (owner/founder, or staff/employee) w/an org or business that's involved in industry issues
it would certainly eliminate alot of the useless obfuscation that non-stop name callers keep adding to some of the more important threads here
in spite of wayne's abusive posts, (it's most definitely not 'a comment', or even a handful of comments)most here play his game for a post or two, laff at the material, and try to move on, yet HE insists on continually trying to push the envelope
kalk, as much as i can't stand his style and content, at least doesn't resort to that childish type of behavior-i've yet to see him get personal in his rants, and he's never insulted anyone personally because he doesn't like what they post
for that at least, i respect him
wish i could say the same for wayne and jb
/off rant
Len":2e4t1vu9 said:I'll see what I can find for that emoticon. In the meantime, the dangerous winky emoticon will have to suffice.
All we moderators are asking for is for you guys be civil. We have never been interested in stifling your expression of ideas/opinions. How much content have we editted? How many threads have we deleted? If for no other reason, conduct yourselves civilly out of respect for the nature of this forum.
:lol:
hehe
Here you go Mary http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14223&start=20 There were a few more posts to the too big list, but it all ended the same month AMDA blew up. I knew I had seen this somewhere when I was moving those hard copies of the e-mails around. Send the fax number.
Mitch
Mitch
Yeah, I found that thread too, but it doesn't mean the USL ended completely at that point. There were several threads running on it. Bottom line is that in March (2 months after January) I spoke at the MAC/LA Wholesaler meeting and told of the USL we had started on rdo. In front of every big wig in the industry- including Elwyn. Rob Miller had numerous interesting comments. If AMDA had me running scared, I doubt I would have brought it up at that meeting. Anyway, what reason would I have to "be quiet" about the USL because AMDA was whining about it? What would be the repercussion I would be trying to avoid by never bringing up the USL again? Losing AMDA members as customers? Nope because none of them were. Losing suppliers? Nope because none of them are AMDA members. I see where you're trying to link this Mitch, but it doesn't hold water. Also realize that January/February is my busiest season of the year. I know understand why I was asking for help to complete it- I didn't have time to do it anymore. That was also the time I was getting ready to resign from MAC and AMDA and all of that stuff was going on. Those were a very hectic few months for me. Bottom line, I can promise I didn't cower to anything Tom White had to say. Or anyone else for that matter. If I lived my life like that, Len wouldn't be having such a hard time right now.
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