for rover re: mac invite

[dizzy]

len,
Consider the Swiftvet ads that are running in the contested states in the upcoming election. Two hundred sixty something Viet Nam vets that served on swift boats are making very serious charges against John Kerry. It gets massive amounts of air play on the 24-hour news stations, even though proving everything they claim may be difficult. When the stakes are high people speak out. If your livelihood is at stake, what else do you have to lose. I guess if anyone can recognize who Steve is talking about they can try to sue him if they want. Sometimes that just brings more unwanted attention and scrutiny. If he gets burned at least you can say you warned him.
Mitch

 

[naesco]

Steve and others

Surely to God you realize that MAC is the only game (speaking of games did everyone notice that Canada trounced US 2-1 in World hockey)
in town. Respect them, advise them, assist them.

In face of BILL 4928, MAC will be industry's saviour.

 

[MaryHM]

When MAC becomes the savior, that's when I change religions.

 

[naesco]

When MAC becomes the savior, that's when I change religions.

In light of your comments on MAC, I am not surprised by this post.

Nonetheless, MAC is the new reality. Get used to it.
IMO, if you intend on remaining in this industry, certification will be a requirement. I think you know that.

 

[MaryHM]

Let me give you a little lesson in US Federal law. They can not mandate that anyone become MAC certified. It's illegal. Call Andy Bruckner with the US Coral Reef Task Force and ask him yourself.

 

[dizzy]

Yes Mary they can't make you get certified, but if they get the airlines to only handle MAC certified fish, your SOL. They have the bases covered. Wayne is right about that. I doubt it will make them loved by many though. Expect for John and Randy and company.
Mitch

Wayne too.

 

[MaryHM]

I don't know how they would convince the US airlines to do that. If MAC was able to do it, think of how much revenue the airlines would lose while companies tried to get certified? And what possible benefit could MAC offer to the airlines in return for their "loyalty"? Also, I think there would be a pretty big backlash against it. Doesn't seem like a very likely scenario to me. There are tons of airlines. Even if they could convince one, I doubt they could convince all. The airlines aren't in the business of worrying about whether freight is certified or not. It's of no concern to them. They worry about how much freight they're shipping.

 

[dizzy]

Apparently you aren't aware of the situation regarding shipping birds. This is in the MAMTI documents so they obviously think they can pull it off. Don't underestimate their ability to influence lawmakers. I believe the term is demand-side interruptions.
Mitch

 

[MaryHM]

I don't ship birds, so no I'm not. What's the situation? And let's keep in mind that birds and fish are considered differently by the airlines. There's a lot in the MAMTI documents, some of it they may be able to pull off, but some of it they won't.

 

[dizzy]

I not sure what the law is on birds. I just know you used to be able to ship stuff and then it stopped somehow. We sell a few dometic birds that are raised locally now. Mostly parakeets and cockatiels. It worked out ok. Cheer up.
Mitch

 

[MaryHM]

Mitch, I just talked to my husband who is at LAX 3 times a week shipping out fish. He says he has seen birds being shipped at least as recently as 2 weeks ago. I also checked Aves International's site- one of the biggest shippers of parrots out of LAX. She is very active in bird legislation issues and there's nothing on her site about any bird problems. What was your experience, Mitch?

 

[naesco]

I can think of a number of ways.
1. You (the exporter) break the law unless the export has a MAC seal.
2. You (the importer break the law unless the import has a MAC seal.

In Canada at the airport, the Agriculture guys would look at the boxes and accompanying waybills. If it has a MAC seal it goes through with no problem.
If it has no seal it is held pending things like verification that the import is not on the now legislated unsuitable species list, has a CDT certificate which means that one fish from that 'batch'was tested, is not coming from a prohibited country etc.
Now what that means is the Agriculture guy calls in a fellow agricultural guy )if available) who knows something about marine fish and coral. He takes a look confirms it is OK and levys the inspection fee.
Just talked with a customs and inspection gal and she confirmed that this is how it would probably work. By the way she was already familiar in a general sense with the US BILL.

 

[kylen]

Wayne,

Who did you speak to at Customs? I highly doubt this will be the case, as you stated. The various agencies are trying to avoid scenarios such as these due to the labour and staffing requirements to process shipments as you hypothesise. Importation of plants comes to mind where all that is required now is a fax to CFIA and a release is faxed back, assuming all paperwork is in order. In days gone by, you had to book an inspection time with the agents and wait for them to physically inspect the shipment.

I can see it now...hey Bob, look at all the pretty fish?

 

[Anonymous]

i sincerely doubt wayne's ever even seen an air waybill, let alone been involved in ever picking up any livestock at an airport , or any of the procedures/laws involved:wink:

 

[naesco]

Wayne,

Who did you speak to at Customs? I highly doubt this will be the case, as you stated. The various agencies are trying to avoid scenarios such as these due to the labour and staffing requirements to process shipments as you hypothesise. Importation of plants comes to mind where all that is required now is a fax to CFIA and a release is faxed back, assuming all paperwork is in order. In days gone by, you had to book an inspection time with the agents and wait for them to physically inspect the shipment.

I can see it now...hey Bob, look at all the pretty fish?

I met with her at my home this evening and we discussed what might happen.
The point of my thread was to underline that there are two routes to go.
Certification gets you what you want fast.
Lack of certification my not get you what you want and/or their would be serious delays.
The example she gave me had to do with food fish. If the docs are in order no problem. If not or on an audit basis they call for an 'expert' who will assist them with the 'problem or concern"

BTW when I brought some baby angels from Taiwanon the plane with me and declared them, the Ag guys came over (I was sweating because it was my first time bringing in fish). They looked in the bag and said Look at all the pretty fish :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

what serious delays ?

 

[MaryHM]

Can anyone name me one example where an NGO has forced their program on to the international stage via legislation? Where an industry has been severely slowed or stopped because of regulations based on an NGO?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm wondering if they may make certificaction (MAC or otherwise) mandatory for import, ie through HR9825. In other words, in order for someone in the Philippines or Indonesia to export to the United States, the packages must be certified in someway through some legally recognized agency. If they do that, there is no need to require certification for internal flights (ie LAX to ATL).

Here is the exact quote:

Grant funding is required to enable CCIF, Reef Check, and MAC to coordinate, train, facilitate certification,
and monitor a comprehensive network of sustainable collection operations throughout the Philippines and
Indonesia. Grant funding is also required to provide cover the initial infrastructural and working capital
costs to start up these operations. These costs are relatively small (typically <$2,500 per cooperative) and
are best grant funded – setting up micro-lending capacity for this purpose alone would not be cost-effective.
The sustainable collection operations will generate a critical mass of certified marine ornamental exports
that will enable US and European importers and airlines to make MAC Certification a condition of purchase and transportation.


For some reason that strikes me as refering to at the wholesale/tranship level and not necessarily at the wholesale/retail level.

FWIW, if MAMTI and MAC stay in the Philippines and leave stateside alone, I don't have areal issue with them.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm wondering if they may make certificaction (MAC or otherwise) mandatory for import, ie through HR9825. In other words, in order for someone in the Philippines or Indonesia to export to the United States, the packages must be certified in someway through some legally recognized agency. If they do that, there is no need to require certification for internal flights (ie LAX to ATL).

Here is the exact quote:

Grant funding is required to enable CCIF, Reef Check, and MAC to coordinate, train, facilitate certification,
and monitor a comprehensive network of sustainable collection operations throughout the Philippines and
Indonesia. Grant funding is also required to provide cover the initial infrastructural and working capital
costs to start up these operations. These costs are relatively small (typically <$2,500 per cooperative) and
are best grant funded – setting up micro-lending capacity for this purpose alone would not be cost-effective.
The sustainable collection operations will generate a critical mass of certified marine ornamental exports
that will enable US and European importers and airlines to make MAC Certification a condition of purchase and transportation.


For some reason that strikes me as refering to at the wholesale/tranship level and not necessarily at the wholesale/retail level.

FWIW, if MAMTI and MAC stay in the Philippines and leave stateside alone, I don't have areal issue with them.

out of sight, out of mind ? :wink:

you'll have issues w/them aplenty, you just don't know it yet

 

[Anonymous]

i wonder about the legalities of a non-profit forcing private enterprise to fund themselves