AMDA DISTRIBUTES NETTING

[Jaime Baquero]

Sally,


The most important aspect I have underlined many times is the lack of leadership and credibility that Steve Robinson has as the president of AMDA. This is the key reason why the fund campaign developed by AMDA is not going anywhere. The North American industry must get involved, it is its responsibility, isn't it the time for the industry to put something back? The industry has its last chance to demonstrate that with its help this trade could become a sustainable activity. Just to have an example of the leadership in question, we can see the amount of money that was collected during the last year since the campaign began. If I remember the AMDA campaign got around $400 . We must admit that something is wrong, right?

I also said that Ferdinand can do something positive, but in order to accomplish that he, Ferdinand, has to dissociate from S. Robinsson. S. Robinson's personality, arrogance, disrespect and lack of savoir faire , are features that do not help Robinson in his intent to do something good and concrete. These same features have been observed since the late 80's. Why all the people that have met S. Robinson do not listen and work with him?

This message is related to the AMDA net training. It is also related to what have happened regarding the cyanide issue during the last 20 years. I said also that it is a shame that the talent and knowledge of Steve Robinson can not be part of the solution.

 

[Anonymous]

man oh man

pardon me for sayin so, but...

pot/kettle

:roll:

i'll take up front criticism that's honest over a sugar coated character assissination attempt any day

 

[Anonymous]

Sally,


The most important aspect I have underlined many times is the lack of leadership and credibility that Steve Robinson has as the president of AMDA. This is the key reason why the fund campaign developed by AMDA is not going anywhere. The North American industry must get involved, it is its responsibility, isn't it the time for the industry to put something back? The industry has its last chance to demonstrate that with its help this trade could become a sustainable activity. Just to have an example of the leadership in question, we can see the amount of money that was collected during the last year since the campaign began. If I remember the AMDA campaign got around $400 . We must admit that something is wrong, right?

I also said that Ferdinand can do something positive, but in order to accomplish that he, Ferdinand, has to dissociate from S. Robinsson. S. Robinson's personality, arrogance, disrespect and lack of savoir faire , are features that do not help Robinson in his intent to do something good and concrete. These same features have been observed since the late 80's. Why all the people that have met S. Robinson do not listen and work with him?

This message is related to the AMDA net training. It is also related to what have happened regarding the cyanide issue during the last 20 years. I said also that it is a shame that the talent and knowledge of Steve Robinson can not be part of the solution.

Jaime,

I respect your point of view, but not as far as Steve is concerned. As far as I can tell, Steve has never claimed a leadership role, he is merely a very loud advocate/opponent. He and Mary are the only ones in North America that have done something. AMDA is the only organization that has/had done net training (I could be wrong) and the only orgainzation to give the proper nets. What's your problem with that? Is it that MAC doesn't like Steve because he's vocal? Or is it that he has morals and ethics and isn't afraid to let the rest of the world know it.

Hey, Steve waxes poetic about what he's passionate about. You can't fault him for that. But just because you don't like him or the way he talks/types, or that you don't like his personality, you can't say he isn't part of the solution. We're all part of the solution. Steve, is after all, only one person and can't save the world by himself, he needs your help and mine.

Now, if you want to do something constructive stop calling for a ban in every thread, stop confusing us peaon's (my term) by hijacking them, help Steve, Fredi, Mary, Mike, Peter and the rest of the world end the use of cyanide. Do something other than complain.

Jaime, you must not understand the Western world at all. Other wise, you wouldn't have to ask about the $400. at all.

 

[clarionreef]

Gee whiz,
Hes really lookin for a butt whipping isn't he?
I RELIZE THAT OUTFITTING THE 100 DIVERS PROPERLY is far less then what Jaimes does...but it was, as always a volunteer effort.
People who do everything for free should not be judged by people who do nothing.
Although there are a hundred posts that fiddle while Rome burns,
I have noted historically that I am not allowed to defend myself against apologists from crooked organizations that I have resigned from and 'outed' for embezzling.
Ferdinand said what Haribon [Jaimes alma mater] did in the Philippines was criminal and ruined it for sincere trainers later.
The most caustic and severe criticisms of Ferdie on RDO have been from Jaime actually as his oversensitive and brittle nature have led him into reactionary stances from everyone and anyone.
I would challenge Jaime to a debate, but it would mean nothing as he means nothing and does nothing except live in the memory of a failure of a grant laundering training scam run long ago.
If Democracy and freedom of speech are what you criticise Jaime, don't watch any presidential debates this year.
Argumentation and debate are foundations of Democratic process and disagreeing is anyones right.
Your posts define you as does your record of...well of nothing actually.
No matter what we do constructively and sincerely, There is always someone upset by it. Oh well, its open mike here every day at the RDO Comedy club.
Steve

 

[PeterIMA]

Steve, Many of the statements you continue to make are false and libelous. Haribon and IMA did not embezzle funds. Haribon trained 800 collectors from 1990 to 1997. The IMA trained about 1100 collectors from 1987 to 2000. AMDA did some upgrade training in Bali recently (at most 100 collectors). You have not trained anyone in the Philippines since 1992 (and have only been there briefly since then last year).

You make it very difficult for others to support you. I agree that there is a need for further net-training. AMDA has almost no capability to raise funds. You need to work with NGOs (like EASI, CORL or the MAC). But, you make this impossible by continuing to attack all NGOs (the good and the not so good).

I am your friend, but you don't seem to know when to stop even with me.

Peter Rubec

 

[clarionreef]

Peter,
I did not mention a word about the IMA.
The HARIBON experience is mine directly.
The poor Filipno used to dummy the PMP direct ship to market scheme is also from inside knowledge.
Ferdies experience is also with HARIBON directly...the Ansula debacle. You know the gun freak that alledgedly was a trainer after I resigned.
I begged them not to ruin the mission, redirect the budget and substitute gill netting. Fianally afetr all these years the divers can see for themselves what was denied by the NGO 'experts.'
Talk to Ferdie before posting such a knee jerk retort.
Again, the post was with Haribon in mind...Surely you don't want to link the IMA with them.
Steve

 

[mkirda]

Sally,


The most important aspect I have underlined many times is the lack of leadership and credibility that Steve Robinson has as the president of AMDA. This is the key reason why the fund campaign developed by AMDA is not going anywhere. The North American industry must get involved, it is its responsibility, isn't it the time for the industry to put something back? The industry has its last chance to demonstrate that with its help this trade could become a sustainable activity. Just to have an example of the leadership in question, we can see the amount of money that was collected during the last year since the campaign began. If I remember the AMDA campaign got around $400 . We must admit that something is wrong, right?

I also said that Ferdinand can do something positive, but in order to accomplish that he, Ferdinand, has to dissociate from S. Robinsson. S. Robinson's personality, arrogance, disrespect and lack of savoir faire , are features that do not help Robinson in his intent to do something good and concrete. These same features have been observed since the late 80's. Why all the people that have met S. Robinson do not listen and work with him?

This message is related to the AMDA net training. It is also related to what have happened regarding the cyanide issue during the last 20 years. I said also that it is a shame that the talent and knowledge of Steve Robinson can not be part of the solution.

Jaime,

It really is a shame that you, amongst others, cannot separate ideas from personality. You must know that there are many things that Steve and I agree on, as well as a few that we do not. He has my respect for what postitive things he can and has contributed. Steve may be the most polarizing individual in the entire reform effort. But you are going to judge him based on personality alone? No matter that he did something positive in getting the good quality netting to Bali- It wasn't part of the solution as you see it?

I dunno, Jaime. You take a positive thing and turn it into a personal attack.
You hate him so that you cannot even give him a pat on the back for doing something positive?
That, in and of itself, shows your own character.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Aquarius1]

What is the best and most productive way to minimize the negative impact from posts in a thread? The answer: Have your assistant bump as many old threads as possible! The dog and pony saga on R.org is comical at best.

 

[Anonymous]

Assistant? Surely you don't mean me? If you do, your wrong about what I do. I bumped those threads to show how Jaime has jumped from an all out attack against Ferdie (calling him a fraud, etc.) to saying Ferdie is the last chance. I threw the Wayne ones if for free, to show how long Neasco has been saying the industry will be shut down next month. BTW, excellent 2nd post, another zinger, just like your first

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Peter,
I did not mention a word about the IMA.
The HARIBON experience is mine directly.
The poor Filipno used to dummy the PMP direct ship to market scheme is also from inside knowledge.
Ferdies experience is also with HARIBON directly...the Ansula debacle. You know the gun freak that alledgedly was a trainer after I resigned.
I begged them not to ruin the mission, redirect the budget and substitute gill netting. Fianally afetr all these years the divers can see for themselves what was denied by the NGO 'experts.'
Talk to Ferdie before posting such a knee jerk retort.
Again, the post was with Haribon in mind...Surely you don't want to link the IMA with them.
Steve

You have been attacking NGOs because the people in charge, in the past and now, can not tolerate your disrespect, arrogance, lack of savoir faire and more. The lack of savoir faire is not helping you to be part of a team that could be very productive to tackle the problem It is a shame because you have knowledge.

Keep talking all you want about Haribon, you weren't there. You were there for a while but you had to quite because people didn't follow you. That happened because of the above reasons. No one from Haribon would pay attention to your non sense. Wake up and face reality.

Your attacks to NGOs have been detrimental to the cause. It is your personal satisfaction but the industry as a whole is losing because of such a behaivor. You are not part of the big team.. so you have to be destructive.

 

[Douglas S Lehman]

Hello Jaime
What "big team" are you referring to?
Some times your best bet is with the underdog.
Do you remember the NY Jets of the late 60's.
The only "BIG MAC" I can find in all of Chicagoland is a hamburger?
Their fish are OK if your hungry enough.

 

[Anonymous]

Same here Doug, in SF, the only MAC's are trucks and burgers

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Gee whiz,
Hes really lookin for a butt whipping isn't he?
I RELIZE THAT OUTFITTING THE 100 DIVERS PROPERLY is far less then what Jaimes does...but it was, as always a volunteer effort.
People who do everything for free should not be judged by people who do nothing.
Although there are a hundred posts that fiddle while Rome burns,
I have noted historically that I am not allowed to defend myself against apologists from crooked organizations that I have resigned from and 'outed' for embezzling.
Ferdinand said what Haribon [Jaimes alma mater] did in the Philippines was criminal and ruined it for sincere trainers later.
The most caustic and severe criticisms of Ferdie on RDO have been from Jaime actually as his oversensitive and brittle nature have led him into reactionary stances from everyone and anyone.
I would challenge Jaime to a debate, but it would mean nothing as he means nothing and does nothing except live in the memory of a failure of a grant laundering training scam run long ago.
If Democracy and freedom of speech are what you criticise Jaime, don't watch any presidential debates this year.
Argumentation and debate are foundations of Democratic process and disagreeing is anyones right.
Your posts define you as does your record of...well of nothing actually.
No matter what we do constructively and sincerely, There is always someone upset by it. Oh well, its open mike here every day at the RDO Comedy club.
Steve

Wow, Steve you are really something. Your manners are terrible. I do not criticise freedon of speech or democracy. I criticise Steve Robinson's personality, which has been detrimental. You do not have idea the damage you have done. Stakeholders from the industry do not want to know anything about what they can do to help because S. Robinson is involved.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Assistant? Surely you don't mean me? If you do, your wrong about what I do. I bumped those threads to show how Jaime has jumped from an all out attack against Ferdie (calling him a fraud, etc.) to saying Ferdie is the last chance. I threw the Wayne ones if for free, to show how long Neasco has been saying the industry will be shut down next month. BTW, excellent 2nd post, another zinger, just like your first

Assistan, sorry I mean GreshamH,

Ferdinad can be the last chance if he dissociate from your boss.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Hello Jaime
What "big team" are you referring to?
Some times your best bet is with the underdog.
Do you remember the NY Jets of the late 60's.
The only "BIG MAC" I can find in all of Chicagoland is a hamburger?
Their fish are OK if your hungry enough.

The big team is the one that is getting grants and is trying to do something. I am not talking about fund raising campaigns of $400 or $ 800 in a year.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Sally,


The most important aspect I have underlined many times is the lack of leadership and credibility that Steve Robinson has as the president of AMDA. This is the key reason why the fund campaign developed by AMDA is not going anywhere. The North American industry must get involved, it is its responsibility, isn't it the time for the industry to put something back? The industry has its last chance to demonstrate that with its help this trade could become a sustainable activity. Just to have an example of the leadership in question, we can see the amount of money that was collected during the last year since the campaign began. If I remember the AMDA campaign got around $400 . We must admit that something is wrong, right?

I also said that Ferdinand can do something positive, but in order to accomplish that he, Ferdinand, has to dissociate from S. Robinsson. S. Robinson's personality, arrogance, disrespect and lack of savoir faire , are features that do not help Robinson in his intent to do something good and concrete. These same features have been observed since the late 80's. Why all the people that have met S. Robinson do not listen and work with him?

This message is related to the AMDA net training. It is also related to what have happened regarding the cyanide issue during the last 20 years. I said also that it is a shame that the talent and knowledge of Steve Robinson can not be part of the solution.

Jaime,

I respect your point of view, but not as far as Steve is concerned. As far as I can tell, Steve has never claimed a leadership role, he is merely a very loud advocate/opponent. He and Mary are the only ones in North America that have done something. AMDA is the only organization that has/had done net training (I could be wrong) and the only orgainzation to give the proper nets. What's your problem with that? Is it that MAC doesn't like Steve because he's vocal? Or is it that he has morals and ethics and isn't afraid to let the rest of the world know it.

Hey, Steve waxes poetic about what he's passionate about. You can't fault him for that. But just because you don't like him or the way he talks/types, or that you don't like his personality, you can't say he isn't part of the solution. We're all part of the solution. Steve, is after all, only one person and can't save the world by himself, he needs your help and mine.

Now, if you want to do something constructive stop calling for a ban in every thread, stop confusing us peaon's (my term) by hijacking them, help Steve, Fredi, Mary, Mike, Peter and the rest of the world end the use of cyanide. Do something other than complain.

Jaime, you must not understand the Western world at all. Other wise, you wouldn't have to ask about the $400. at all.

Sally,

AMDA = American Marine Dealers Association. The President of such organization must have the leadership to associate its members and develop programs tending to improve the image of the organization he is representing. There is a problem with cyanide collection, collectors need nets, training and attention. You need someone with carism and credibility to bring the members of the association together and do something productive. Robinson is not that man! $400- $800 in a year?

This is more real and is happening today and will happen tomorrow, is a fact, is true. This is no one of Robinson's false accusations of something that "happened" years ago when he had to quite because people couldn't tolerate him, of course I am talking about Haribon.

 

[Anonymous]

Sci Guy, I agree with Mike Kirda. I met Ambrosius Ruwindrijarto (Ruwi for short) at MO 04. I was stuck by his honesty and integrity. He is associated with the NGO Telepak. The IMA through Ferdinand have collaborated with Telepak since 1999. Hence, Ruwi is well known to the IMA.

Since, Ferdinand formed EASI last year, the village of Les has become fully committed to collecting MO with nets and protecting their waters through creation of an MPA. They have started a coral farm to support reef restoration and export of truly farmed frags. To export fish and corals they formed an export company (PT Bahtera LEStari). Ruwi now acts as their business manager. More than 100 collectors have been converted from cyanide fishing to using barrier nets. Steve Robinson conducted training in Les to teach the collectors other procedures that will allow them to broaden the variety of MO fish species being collected.

Ruwi is interested in expanding net-training to other areas in Indonesia in collaboration with collectors in other villages situated in Sulawesi and on other neighboring islands. They have accomplished a lot with several small grants obtained by Telepak.

I am impressed by the commitment of Ruwi and the collectors in Les. They deserve our assistance. Right, now they face opposition from other exporters who deal almost exclusively in cyanide-caught fish. I urge those expressing scepticism to consider these facts concerning the collectors situated in the village of Les in northern Bali.

Peter

Wow, EASI was created by Ferdie last year? Has to be true, a scientist said it, one the "knows" Ferdie personally, non the less.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello Jaime
What "big team" are you referring to?
Some times your best bet is with the underdog.
Do you remember the NY Jets of the late 60's.
The only "BIG MAC" I can find in all of Chicagoland is a hamburger?
Their fish are OK if your hungry enough.

The big team is the one that is getting grants and is trying to do something. I am not talking about fund raising campaigns of $400 or $ 800 in a year.

So the guy you called a fraud and questioned his integrity, is now the last chance in your eyes? Your not scared anymore about him having worked in the trade in the past and possiably now? What about all the things you've said about him in the past? You feel that different about him now? What happenned?

 

[Anonymous]

Assistant? Surely you don't mean me? If you do, your wrong about what I do. I bumped those threads to show how Jaime has jumped from an all out attack against Ferdie (calling him a fraud, etc.) to saying Ferdie is the last chance. I threw the Wayne ones if for free, to show how long Neasco has been saying the industry will be shut down next month. BTW, excellent 2nd post, another zinger, just like your first

Assistan, sorry I mean GreshamH,

Ferdinad can be the last chance if he dissociate from your boss.

Oops, I ment to respond to this post, not the last one I replied to.

 

[naesco]

Wayne,
The easy part is the sermon against evil.
The harder part is the implementation of workable, viable options.
Preaching to the choir...and then haranging the choir...finally blowing up at the choir is an interesting strategy.
There are dozens who actually deserve the reprimand but they are not here...except for Kalk.
Why not direct the manifesto at the MAC or the exporters they serve?
How bout the lethargic bureau of fisheries , ie. a letter writing campaign? I did that 20 years ago and the chief asked me to make them stop he got so many!
Lastly, why not donate to Easi or the village cooperative in North Bali. They all need help to do work, real work.
The worth of all this is to be found in the forging of action plans and the implemention of stategies and goals.
Being greener then thou and fighting with allies and real doers is not the best way to get things done.

Since all PR for even the most polluting of firms and the most irresponsible of companies is in green-speak now, you need to glean the real thing from the fake and fraudulent. Go after something that counts please and not your very best allies!
Amen...
Steve

I appreciate your post. It is fair comment.
I will have more to say soon.