AMDA DISTRIBUTES NETTING

[mkirda]

Grand infrastructure for accounting and record keeping is valued w/ most funders far more then skills and teaching ability in the field.

Not true, Steve. Funders just want assurance that their money will be wisely spent and will serve the purpose intended. Sending netting without training and livestock handling programs in place appears contrary to a lot of the things recently recommended by reform experts here.

With all the allegations that have been thrown about regarding past/present reform efforts people have a right to be cynical.

-Lee

Lee,

Pardon Steve for tooting his horn, but this is a positive development.
Last year, Ferdinand worked for quite a while with Ruwi, before he became quite as involved with EASI. The villages were heavily involved in the cyanide trade, but the village leaders laid down the law and demanded for it to end. The area was trained to a certain degree, but probably not as well as we'd all like it to be. Additionally, there is support locally from at least one exporter.

I know at least some of the the MSI netting has been sent to Ruwi as well- This directly from Ferdinand.

You have a right to be cynical, sure.
But from what I have heard from Ferdinand, there is little to be cynical about with regards to Ruwi.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[PeterIMA]

Sci Guy, I agree with Mike Kirda. I met Ambrosius Ruwindrijarto (Ruwi for short) at MO 04. I was stuck by his honesty and integrity. He is associated with the NGO Telepak. The IMA through Ferdinand have collaborated with Telepak since 1999. Hence, Ruwi is well known to the IMA.

Since, Ferdinand formed EASI last year, the village of Les has become fully committed to collecting MO with nets and protecting their waters through creation of an MPA. They have started a coral farm to support reef restoration and export of truly farmed frags. To export fish and corals they formed an export company (PT Bahtera LEStari). Ruwi now acts as their business manager. More than 100 collectors have been converted from cyanide fishing to using barrier nets. Steve Robinson conducted training in Les to teach the collectors other procedures that will allow them to broaden the variety of MO fish species being collected.

Ruwi is interested in expanding net-training to other areas in Indonesia in collaboration with collectors in other villages situated in Sulawesi and on other neighboring islands. They have accomplished a lot with several small grants obtained by Telepak.

I am impressed by the commitment of Ruwi and the collectors in Les. They deserve our assistance. Right, now they face opposition from other exporters who deal almost exclusively in cyanide-caught fish. I urge those expressing scepticism to consider these facts concerning the collectors situated in the village of Les in northern Bali.

Peter

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the information, guys. I've done some looking and found a neat, small article, with some nice pictures, about Les, Bali and the reform efforts there.

http://www.baliandbeyond.co.id/month/20 ... lorer.html

I know that some have umbrage at my irreverent asking of questions of late. I do appreciate the information.

Cheers,
-Lee

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Please read lasts e-mails from Ferdinand. He is saying that net training alone is not the answer. He also said EASI is re-thinking how to go.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Thanks for the information, guys. I've done some looking and found a neat, small article, with some nice pictures, about Les, Bali and the reform efforts there.

http://www.baliandbeyond.co.id/month/20 ... lorer.html

I know that some have umbrage at my irreverent asking of questions of late. I do appreciate the information.

Cheers,
-Lee

Lee,

Thanks for the link. It is a nice article.i

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Does it mean that AMDA efforts are going to be concentrated in Bali? No much has been done by AMDA in the Philippines. Seems the skipper is losing control. :lol:

 

[MaryHM]

Does it mean that AMDA efforts are going to be concentrated in Bali? No much has been done by AMDA in the Philippines. Seems the skipper is losing control.

Does it really matter if trainings/netting are going to the Philippines or Indonesia? Should that even be a point of contention?? As long as the country has a cyanide problem and is open to being trained then what's the gripe, Jaime? Should we form a line "Ok, all Filipino collectors to the left- Indo collectors to the right". "Alright, Indo collectors, even though you are ready now we can't train you or give you nets until every last PI collector is trained first". HOW STUPID IS THAT??????????? Answer? Really stupid. Whoever wants the netting and trainings should get it. Period. End of discussion. And we should all be happy for it no matter what country they're in. At least the problem is being tackled in a country where there actually is a problem. You don't see Steve and Ferdie running to Fiji and Hawaii to train collectors there and hand out nets just for the good PR. I swear, I don't know why I even bother to read the crap that gets spewed in here- frankly it's shameful.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Does it mean that AMDA efforts are going to be concentrated in Bali? No much has been done by AMDA in the Philippines. Seems the skipper is losing control.

Does it really matter if trainings/netting are going to the Philippines or Indonesia? Should that even be a point of contention?? As long as the country has a cyanide problem and is open to being trained then what's the gripe, Jaime? Should we form a line "Ok, all Filipino collectors to the left- Indo collectors to the right". "Alright, Indo collectors, even though you are ready now we can't train you or give you nets until every last PI collector is trained first". HOW STUPID IS THAT??????????? Answer? Really stupid. Whoever wants the netting and trainings should get it. Period. End of discussion. And we should all be happy for it no matter what country they're in. At least the problem is being tackled in a country where there actually is a problem. You don't see Steve and Ferdie running to Fiji and Hawaii to train collectors there and hand out nets just for the good PR. I swear, I don't know why I even bother to read the crap that gets spewed in here- frankly it's shameful.

The problem is that people reading this thread are getting confuse. No concrete plans, as result of the fund raising campaign you developed a bunch of nets were distributed to collectors but no one knows what happened after that. The idea is good but there is not a follow up. Read Ferdinand's lasts e-mails, nets and net training, is not the ONLY answer. EASI is re-thinking how to go. They do not want to do things just for doing things (meaning giving nets and training), they learned that by doing ONLY THAT fisherfolks will go back to cyanide. Glad to see that EASI now knows that the approach must be holistic.

 

[MaryHM]

No concrete plans, as result of the fund raising campaign you developed a bunch of nets were distributed to collectors but no one knows what happened after that.

From the very beginning of the net fund that I developed, everyone knew that the nets would be given to Ferdie and that the distribution of those nets would be solely up to him based on one thing: The divers receiving the nets had to have already completed trainings. There's no big mystery as to what happened to the nets, Jaime. They were given to Ferdie (as stated in the original fund) and Ferdie is distributing them as he sees fit (as stated in the original fund). That has been stated here several times. Of course nets and net training aren't the ONLY answer. DUH. Who ever said they were??? It's a lot more complicated than that and that is why I turned the nets over to Ferdie. He has a better understanding of the situation than 99.99999% of the people (and organizations) in here or anyone else I know for that matter. Just because nets aren't the ONLY answer doesn't mean you don't provide them, Jaime. Honestly, I wish I had the luxury of being an armchair quarterback where this issue was concerned. Must be nice. This is the only forum I know of where you can get bashed for not doing anything and also get bashed if you do something.

 

[mkirda]

The problem is that people reading this thread are getting confuse. No concrete plans, as result of the fund raising campaign you developed a bunch of nets were distributed to collectors but no one knows what happened after that. The idea is good but there is not a follow up. Read Ferdinand's lasts e-mails, nets and net training, is not the ONLY answer. EASI is re-thinking how to go. They do not want to do things just for doing things (meaning giving nets and training), they learned that by doing ONLY THAT fisherfolks will go back to cyanide. Glad to see that EASI now knows that the approach must be holistic.

Jaime,

People who were involved know about the distribution of the netting.
Mary knows- I've forwarded many an e-mail to her when Ferdinand filled her mailbox with photos. There are so many positive things that have gone on that, for whatever reason, have not gotten advertised. Without wanting to step on Mary's toes, I've kept quite quiet. I figured that she would spread the word. Not sure what it never seemed to happen.

More than reading his last postings, I pick up the phone and call the man.
I can't wait to see his paper from MO'04 get published- It will show the folly of certifying depleted areas from a strictly economic perspective.
If you don't have the fish, all the training and netting in the world will not help. The approach does not have to be 'holistic' so much as it has to be 'realistic'. What is the end goal? Getting the fisherfolk to at least poverty level. The first question should be- Can MO fishing help get them there?
Answer: It depends on the condition of the reefs. If they are crappy, the answer is NO. If they are so-so, the answer is still no, but closer to poverty level. If the reefs are in good shape, the poverty level can be broken rather easily. So, if MO fishing is to be an answer to the local community's needs, the reefs have to be in decent shape to begin with- Otherwise, the answer will lie in alternative income sources.

As far as why backsliding occurs, my point is that there is no one clear cut, simple answer for all cases. You know from experience after training and after the trainers leave that some fishermen will pull out their squirt bottles in frustration because they just find nets hard to master. IOW, they don't have the skills down. It takes time and effort to master a new skill, and they would rather sit through a few training sessions and use their old ways than master the new one if at all possible.

There is a lot more that I could say, but I'll leave it at this for now.
EASI's re-thinking on how to go comes from the economic analysis- There are places where they will likely move to minimize MO collection and training, prefering to move fishermen to alternative sources of income instead. Especially in places where the reefs are trashed, like most of the central Visayas.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[MaryHM]

Mary knows- I've forwarded many an e-mail to her when Ferdinand filled her mailbox with photos. There are so many positive things that have gone on that, for whatever reason, have not gotten advertised. Without wanting to step on Mary's toes, I've kept quite quiet. I figured that she would spread the word. Not sure what it never seemed to happen.

As you know Mike, lots of stuff goes on behind the scenes. Some of it you know, some of it I know. I did what I set out to do and the netting got where it was going. I wanted to update and shout it from the rooftops, but due to behind the scenes drama I decided to finally just cool it. You are more than welcome to do whatever you want as far as publicizing the details.

For the Jaime's of the world, I will post this letter I received in January from Eddie Nuque of EASI after Ferdie transferred the netting material to them:

10 January 2004


Ms. Mary Middlebrook

Dear Ms. Middlebrook,

Greetings!

We are the East Asian Seas Initiatives, Inc. (EASI), a non-profit, non-stock, non-governmental organization organized under Philippine laws and based in the Philippines.

EASI’s mission is to advocate the strategic importance of Wise Practices (e.g. non-use of cyanide and the practice of illegal methods such as dynamite fishing) to attain a sustainable use of marine resources.

The president of EASI is Atty. Abelardo Aportadera, a former Commissioner of Human Rights and Asst Ombudsman (a government watchdog against graft and corrupt practices in government). The other trustees are Eddie Nuque, Ferdinand Cruz, Atty Dong Lorenzo, Dante Dalabahan, Joyce Palacol and Darlene Malimas. All the trustees are experts in: marine law, community training and organizing, communication and internet technology, and capacity building for sustainable fishing and coastal resource management.

In this regard, we wish to acknowledge your donation of two bundles of fishing nets which were turned over to us by one of our trustees, Ferdi Cruz.

Please be informed that we re-donated one bundle, to our counterpart organization in Indonesia for distribution to collectors in various sites.

As for the other bundle, we will distribute the nets towards the end of this month, to prospective beneficiaries in our target sites. The distribution and allocation of the nets are based on our determination of the beneficiaries’ need and capacity to use the nets.

By next month, we will be able to provide you with specific details on how your nets were allocated and distributed, both in Indonesia and in the Philippines.

In the meantime, in behalf of the collector beneficiaries, please accept our thanks and gratitude for your donation of nets. These will go a long way in our efforts to promote sustainable practices in the marine fish trade.

Very truly yours,

(sgd)
Eddie M. Nuque
Managing Trustee

 

[MaryHM]

Here is a letter that Steve wants me to post here as well that Ruwi just sent him:


Dear Steve Robinson and all Board Members of AMDA,

Allow me to express our deepest gratitude for AMDA's continuing
support to our cause for a sustainable marine ornamental
industry in Indonesia. We thank you in particular for your
donation of nets (3 rolls, approximately 90 units of barrier
nets). As you all must have been aware of, netting is not an
easy thing for us. And so far it is only AMDA which has made a
concrete and real action by actually getting the nets for us.
This is really a huge help to us and we hope that this will
cement our inter-continental cooperation for the better
industry.
I write this letter on behalf of the Ornamental Fisher
Association Mina Bhakti Soansari of Les Village, Tejakula,
Bali. We would like to send you photos of the nets when we've
cut them and make them into operational.
We look forward to a continous relationship with you and AMDA.

salam,
I Made Merta - Mina Bhakti Soansari
A. Ruwindrijarto - Bahtera LEStari

 

[Anonymous]

Does it mean that AMDA efforts are going to be concentrated in Bali? No much has been done by AMDA in the Philippines. Seems the skipper is losing control.

Does it really matter if trainings/netting are going to the Philippines or Indonesia? Should that even be a point of contention?? As long as the country has a cyanide problem and is open to being trained then what's the gripe, Jaime? Should we form a line "Ok, all Filipino collectors to the left- Indo collectors to the right". "Alright, Indo collectors, even though you are ready now we can't train you or give you nets until every last PI collector is trained first". HOW STUPID IS THAT??????????? Answer? Really stupid. Whoever wants the netting and trainings should get it. Period. End of discussion. And we should all be happy for it no matter what country they're in. At least the problem is being tackled in a country where there actually is a problem. You don't see Steve and Ferdie running to Fiji and Hawaii to train collectors there and hand out nets just for the good PR. I swear, I don't know why I even bother to read the crap that gets spewed in here- frankly it's shameful.

The problem is that people reading this thread are getting confuse. No concrete plans, as result of the fund raising campaign you developed a bunch of nets were distributed to collectors but no one knows what happened after that. The idea is good but there is not a follow up. Read Ferdinand's lasts e-mails, nets and net training, is not the ONLY answer. EASI is re-thinking how to go. They do not want to do things just for doing things (meaning giving nets and training), they learned that by doing ONLY THAT fisherfolks will go back to cyanide. Glad to see that EASI now knows that the approach must be holistic.

Jaime, Kalk, Naesco, Sciguy & Jamesw

Personaly I wish you'd all be quiet. YOUR the one's confusing the readers of this forum. You continusly bait and switch, make false accusations, skew facts and hijack threads. The only good you have done, is to make sure that the facts have been repeated enought times that people with ADHD get it. Please stop.

 

[clarionreef]

Wow, Sally,
What a show stopper!
You go girl!
Steve

 

[naesco]

No Sally we will not stop until cyanide is stopped being used.

The message is not clouded it is crystal clear.

As we speak industry is using cyanide to capture fish in the Philippines and Indonesia. They know that and are doing nothing about it.

As well as killing most of the fish, cyanide destroys the reef and all the critters who dwell therein.

Fortuneately the Philipinos have awakened and realize that the only way to stop cyanide use is to ban the export of ornamental fish.

During the period of the ban, intensive net training and CDT programmes will be implemented.

The only way to stop cyanide use and the destruction of the reefs is to support the immediate and mandatory use of cyanide detection testing (CDT).

If US industry does not support this, the Philippine government will ban the export and the US government (new administration) will ban the import and you are out of business.

How can anything be more clear.

 

[Anonymous]

naesco

Then prove to me that a ban is going to happen. You been saying that as far back as two years ago. When is this ban going to happen?

This particular thread was about ADMA giving out netting matterial to Bali fishermen. Now, it's about a ban, again, the same as it's been for the last several threads.

You've been asked several questions in several threads and have yet to answer one. It's time for you to put up or shut up.

Why don't you go after Kalkbreath, he's the only one in this forum that thinks it isn't hurting anything. And doesn't seem to mind importing them either.

I know damn good and well what it's like to live in the Phillipines, been there and done that. Did it for years. I understand more about what is important to them than you do, it seems. I know that cyanide is a major problem, not only to the reefs, but also to the poor people who eat cyanide caught fish day in and day out. Can you even imagine what that is doing to them?

It's pretty much the same for all Phillipino people, whether they're fishermen or housekeepers working in Japan, all these people want, is to make enough money to feed their kids and send them to school. Do you think a ban will be good for those families? Or the families of all the other people involved in the trade?

They're not like us, they don't want a new car or computer or what ever new toy suits there fancy. The barn in my back yard is better than their homes and so is your garage for that matter. Shame on you, while you sit in the lap of luxury, condeming people that are starving and pretty much near shelterless.

naesco, until I hear from Mr. Cruz, you are just spewing vomit for me and others to read.

 

[naesco]

naesco

Then prove to me that a ban is going to happen. You been saying that as far back as two years ago. When is this ban going to happen?

This particular thread was about ADMA giving out netting matterial to Bali fishermen. Now, it's about a ban, again, the same as it's been for the last several threads.

You've been asked several questions in several threads and have yet to answer one. It's time for you to put up or shut up.

Why don't you go after Kalkbreath, he's the only one in this forum that thinks it isn't hurting anything. And doesn't seem to mind importing them either.

I know damn good and well what it's like to live in the Phillipines, been there and done that. Did it for years. I understand more about what is important to them than you do, it seems. I know that cyanide is a major problem, not only to the reefs, but also to the poor people who eat cyanide caught fish day in and day out. Can you even imagine what that is doing to them?

It's pretty much the same for all Phillipino people, whether they're fishermen or housekeepers working in Japan, all these people want, is to make enough money to feed their kids and send them to school. Do you think a ban will be good for those families? Or the families of all the other people involved in the trade?

They're not like us, they don't want a new car or computer or what ever new toy suits there fancy. The barn in my back yard is better than their homes and so is your garage for that matter. Shame on you, while you sit in the lap of luxury, condeming people that are starving and pretty much near shelterless.

naesco, until I hear from Mr. Cruz, you are just spewing vomit for me and others to read.

Sally what are you smoking? I did not post in this thread at all until you used my name in vain.

Don't talk to me about the poor in the Philippines until you decide that you are going to do something to stop the destruction of their livlihood and their future.

Get it straight Sally.
I condemn industry for not doing anything about cyanide.
I admire the Philippine people for finally taking control of their reef heritage and stopping further destruction by industry who close their eyes as though nothing has ever happened. An industry that is so naive that they can continue to rape the Philippines of their reef bounty.

I know where Mr. Cruz stands. He stands for what is in the best interest of his country and the future of its reefs.
He stands for the end to the use of cyanide.
He stands for the necessary international funding for proper net training and repair of the damage industry has done to his reefs
He stands for mandatory cyanide detection testing to keep all the parties honest.

Guess what Sally! That is what I stand for.
Where do you stand? Do you stand with Kalk and industry?

 

[Anonymous]

naesco

Then prove to me that a ban is going to happen. You been saying that as far back as two years ago. When is this ban going to happen?

This particular thread was about ADMA giving out netting matterial to Bali fishermen. Now, it's about a ban, again, the same as it's been for the last several threads.

You've been asked several questions in several threads and have yet to answer one. It's time for you to put up or shut up.

Why don't you go after Kalkbreath, he's the only one in this forum that thinks it isn't hurting anything. And doesn't seem to mind importing them either.

I know damn good and well what it's like to live in the Phillipines, been there and done that. Did it for years. I understand more about what is important to them than you do, it seems. I know that cyanide is a major problem, not only to the reefs, but also to the poor people who eat cyanide caught fish day in and day out. Can you even imagine what that is doing to them?

It's pretty much the same for all Phillipino people, whether they're fishermen or housekeepers working in Japan, all these people want, is to make enough money to feed their kids and send them to school. Do you think a ban will be good for those families? Or the families of all the other people involved in the trade?

They're not like us, they don't want a new car or computer or what ever new toy suits there fancy. The barn in my back yard is better than their homes and so is your garage for that matter. Shame on you, while you sit in the lap of luxury, condeming people that are starving and pretty much near shelterless.

naesco, until I hear from Mr. Cruz, you are just spewing vomit for me and others to read.

Sally what are you smoking? I did not post in this thread at all until you used my name in vain.

talk about a napoleon complex-you think you're a god now? :lol:

Don't talk to me about the poor in the Philippines until you decide that you are going to do something to stop the destruction of their livlihood and their future.

naesco, i'd suggest that someone as ignorant as yourself about the phillipines, and the Fillipinos, and the industry, and the 'reeform' movement, stop talking until you at least know your subject matter, or contribute to the solution-you're just a part of the problem, for now

Get it straight Sally.
I condemn industry for not doing anything about cyanide.

you don't even know, nor ar you clear, as to what you mean by industry

nor is it true that 'industry' has done nothing-you're just ignorant

I admire the Philippine people for finally taking control of their reef heritage and stopping further destruction by industry who close their eyes as though nothing has ever happened.

i asume this also includes marcos, et al-they're part of the fillipino people too, right? how about all the fillipino cyanide pushers/cartels/corrupt law officials? you must be very proud of them too

you do realize that there are industry members who have done more than some filipinos, do you not?

An industry that is so naive that they can continue to rape the Philippines of their reef bounty.


naive? hardly-this industry knows exactly what it can try to get away with, and usually does-i'd say you were the naive one, here

I know where Mr. Cruz stands. He stands for what is in the best interest of his country and the future of its reefs.
He stands for the end to the use of cyanide.
He stands for the necessary international funding for proper net training and repair of the damage industry has done to his reefs
He stands for mandatory cyanide detection testing to keep all the parties honest.

naesco- i doubt you have any clue whatsoever as to what ferdie believes, stands for, or has and will try to accomplish

if you did- you wouldn't keep trying to impede his efforts w/all of your inane postings and unilateral demand rants

you're grasp of things is so overly simplistic and incorrect it's laughableGuess what Sally! That is what I stand for.
Where do you stand? Do you stand with Kalk and industry?

define industry, please

p.s.- you haven't answered a single question put forth to you yet, i wonder why?

people who don't answer a question usually don't have an answer :wink:

 

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
The easy part is the sermon against evil.
The harder part is the implementation of workable, viable options.
Preaching to the choir...and then haranging the choir...finally blowing up at the choir is an interesting strategy.
There are dozens who actually deserve the reprimand but they are not here...except for Kalk.
Why not direct the manifesto at the MAC or the exporters they serve?
How bout the lethargic bureau of fisheries , ie. a letter writing campaign? I did that 20 years ago and the chief asked me to make them stop he got so many!
Lastly, why not donate to Easi or the village cooperative in North Bali. They all need help to do work, real work.
The worth of all this is to be found in the forging of action plans and the implemention of stategies and goals.
Being greener then thou and fighting with allies and real doers is not the best way to get things done.

Since all PR for even the most polluting of firms and the most irresponsible of companies is in green-speak now, you need to glean the real thing from the fake and fraudulent. Go after something that counts please and not your very best allies!
Amen...
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Sally what are you smoking? I did not post in this thread at all until you used my name in vain.

Don't talk to me about the poor in the Philippines until you decide that you are going to do something to stop the destruction of their livlihood and their future.

Get it straight Sally.
I condemn industry for not doing anything about cyanide.
I admire the Philippine people for finally taking control of their reef heritage and stopping further destruction by industry who close their eyes as though nothing has ever happened. An industry that is so naive that they can continue to rape the Philippines of their reef bounty.

I know where Mr. Cruz stands. He stands for what is in the best interest of his country and the future of its reefs.
He stands for the end to the use of cyanide.
He stands for the necessary international funding for proper net training and repair of the damage industry has done to his reefs
He stands for mandatory cyanide detection testing to keep all the parties honest.

Guess what Sally! That is what I stand for.
Where do you stand? Do you stand with Kalk and industry?

If US industry does not support this, the Philippine government will ban the export and the US government (new administration) will ban the import and you are out of business.

naesco, the original post was a *collective* request, all the named are guilty. I didn't use your name in vain, if I did, you would have known it and I would have been banned.

I smoke Marlboro Ultra Lights but not in my house. I don't pollute my son's air. I gave up everything legal and illegal at age 18.

As far as what I am doing to help the reefs or what I stand for, well, to start with I found RDO, then I read and read some more. I drive HOURS to retailers that only sell net caught, aquacultered or sustainably harvested fish and inverts. I educate everyone I meet at any retailers, including the retailers themselves, at the risk of being kicked out. I practice what I preach and preach what I practice.

As for Kalk, I was planning on visiting his store while in Atl. the end of this month, but decided not to waste my time or money there.

Um, did we have an election I didn't know about?

See how easy it was to answer your questions. Now I'll ask you again.

What ban and where is your proof?