Coral collection banned in Fiji?
- Thread starter -JB
- Start date
Fiction. The current problem is that CITES has recommended suspension of imports from Fiji, Vietnam, and Yeman because their legislation does not current meet CITES standards. No one is revoking collection permits, etc... Here's the link:
http://www.cites.org/eng/news/sundry/fiji_vn_ym_suspension.shtml
This link is also important, as it details the steps the Fijian government has been taking with CITES officials:
http://www.cites.org/eng/notifs/2002/003.shtml
The recommendation went into effect Jan. 14, but as far as I know no shipments were refused entry into the US this past week. My Fijian contact is going to talk to the Fisheries Minister early next week and I'll update everyone then.
http://www.cites.org/eng/news/sundry/fiji_vn_ym_suspension.shtml
This link is also important, as it details the steps the Fijian government has been taking with CITES officials:
http://www.cites.org/eng/notifs/2002/003.shtml
The recommendation went into effect Jan. 14, but as far as I know no shipments were refused entry into the US this past week. My Fijian contact is going to talk to the Fisheries Minister early next week and I'll update everyone then.
Here is an example.
There is a risk that we may not see it to go the way we as reefers would like to see it.
A third party, in this case CITES is involved.
Had the industry taken the initiative to do this CITIES would not be involved.
We as reefers/industry must take steps to clean up our act now before someone else decides to do it.
What is the next step to get this moving Mary?
There is a risk that we may not see it to go the way we as reefers would like to see it.
A third party, in this case CITES is involved.
Had the industry taken the initiative to do this CITIES would not be involved.
We as reefers/industry must take steps to clean up our act now before someone else decides to do it.
What is the next step to get this moving Mary?
The issue is between CITES and the Fijian government/people. It has nothing to do with the citizens of this country and the portion of the US Population involved in any way with the marine aquarium trade. The problem lies with the civil unrest and politically unstable and ineffective government. If a goverment is just trying to stay in power it has little time to devote to pushing paper around. The Fijian people who are affected need to pressure their government to speed the review and pass the required legislation to gain the blessing of CITES. There is little anyone can do from this end.
I don't disagree with what either of you have said.
The point I am trying to make is that unless we get off our high horse and take the initiative to wrong our present wrongs (like importing impossible to keep corals and fish)somelse will fill that role be it a foreign or US goverment, environmental organizations like Greenpeace or indirectly through existing organizations like CITIES or the Coral Task Force(sic?)
I do not mean this with any disrespect but you again push off the problem to some one else.
Take some positive action now.
Show the US Government, environmental organizations that you are taking charge of the problems this hobby create before it is too late.
The point I am trying to make is that unless we get off our high horse and take the initiative to wrong our present wrongs (like importing impossible to keep corals and fish)somelse will fill that role be it a foreign or US goverment, environmental organizations like Greenpeace or indirectly through existing organizations like CITIES or the Coral Task Force(sic?)
I do not mean this with any disrespect but you again push off the problem to some one else.
Take some positive action now.
Show the US Government, environmental organizations that you are taking charge of the problems this hobby create before it is too late.
From SPC:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
There would be no reason to voluntarily stop importing from Fiji. CITES is not saying that the collection in Fiji is unsustainable or that the reefs there are in danger. CITES wants legislation in the Fijian government that has the particular wording necessary for countries that participate in CITES. The problem with Fiji is that they had a coup attempt that crippled the government for over a year. They just conducted elections the end of August and the new government has had higher priorities to work on. Frankly, I think CITES should cut them a little slack until they can get the new government established. This is a paperwork thing, not a sustainability thing. And I abhor paperwork
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
There would be no reason to voluntarily stop importing from Fiji. CITES is not saying that the collection in Fiji is unsustainable or that the reefs there are in danger. CITES wants legislation in the Fijian government that has the particular wording necessary for countries that participate in CITES. The problem with Fiji is that they had a coup attempt that crippled the government for over a year. They just conducted elections the end of August and the new government has had higher priorities to work on. Frankly, I think CITES should cut them a little slack until they can get the new government established. This is a paperwork thing, not a sustainability thing. And I abhor paperwork
MAybe if CITES cut them some slack it will become unsustainable, just as it has in other reefs around the world. Maybe this paperwork thing could save some natural reefs and should be taken serious by importers. Or maybe it is just about making as much money as possible before the well dries up.
Everyone untie your panties and calm down
When I say it's a "paperwork thing", I only mean that CITES is asking for the proper "paperwork" (legislaton) to be completed. They are by no means recommending a suspension of collection based on unsuitability. I have no problem with CITES asking for the legislation to be in place, and in fact I support it. However, I think CITES needs to take into account the fact that the Fijian government has been in a state of dishevel for well over a year and is just now getting back on track. The Fijian government has asked for a delay until Dec. 2002 so they can have time to work on the legislation and do it properly.
When I say it's a "paperwork thing", I only mean that CITES is asking for the proper "paperwork" (legislaton) to be completed. They are by no means recommending a suspension of collection based on unsuitability. I have no problem with CITES asking for the legislation to be in place, and in fact I support it. However, I think CITES needs to take into account the fact that the Fijian government has been in a state of dishevel for well over a year and is just now getting back on track. The Fijian government has asked for a delay until Dec. 2002 so they can have time to work on the legislation and do it properly.
"TRY TO HOLD THEM OFF JUST A LITTLE LONGER!{SOUND OF GUN FIRE IN BACKGROUND} I MUST FINISH THIS CITIES PAPERWORK!" ..."BUT SIR, THE POSTAL SERVICE HAS NOT BE RUNNING FOR WEEKS!" ...AND BESIDES ISNOT ALL THIS FUSS OVER THE CORALS WEEDS A BIT SILLY ?" {Actual transcription of a government official and his aid , during the Coupe attempt}
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Kalk
As comical as that is, it's just as comical to disregard Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Staying alive, safe, and having food on the table are just a bit closer to the top of the list than having the appropriate words on paper to satisfy the paper pushers of a foreign NGO.
Odd three people in the "Industry" making light of CITES.
Looking at the GNP in exports of Fiji show that fish is their 2nd largest export.
I would think any government would want to protect their major exports and take the appropiate measure to continue income.
I assure you that when due to their lack of co-oprertion with programs such as CITES these same people bemouning paperwork and yuking it up will be the first to get their panties in a wad when the import of such animals is restricted.
Looking at the GNP in exports of Fiji show that fish is their 2nd largest export.
I would think any government would want to protect their major exports and take the appropiate measure to continue income.
I assure you that when due to their lack of co-oprertion with programs such as CITES these same people bemouning paperwork and yuking it up will be the first to get their panties in a wad when the import of such animals is restricted.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MaryHM:
<strong>
There would be no reason to voluntarily stop importing from Fiji. CITES is not saying that the collection in Fiji is unsustainable or that the reefs there are in danger. CITES wants legislation in the Fijian government that has the particular wording necessary for countries that participate in CITES. The problem with Fiji is that they had a coup attempt that crippled the government for over a year. They just conducted elections the end of August and the new government has had higher priorities to work on. Frankly, I think CITES should cut them a little slack until they can get the new government established. This is a paperwork thing, not a sustainability thing. And I abhor paperwork
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I would second that. I was in fiji when the new government was "sworn" in. To show you have disfuntional the gov't is, George Speight, the leader of the coup, was elected to parliment and even tried to get a day pass out of jail to attend the meeting.
The fijian gov't is barely getting off their feet. Elections are a big thing down there and basically consume the country. The problem is there are basically 2 parties in the country and the ethnics basically vote along them. There are splinter groups on both sides but as a whole there are 2 groups. There are so many levels to the quagmire found in fijian gov't.
Let's put it this way:
Fire every person in congress and the president. Impose a deadline for legislation to be enacted then proceed to elect a new gov't etc etc. And throw in there some deep rooted hatred for 50% of the population. Ad a pinch of Sept 11th (yes it did have an affect over there) Then throw in a dash of 80% of the police is Fijian and 80% of the military is Indian-Fijian. Mix in a pot and voila you now have fiji
The fijians are lucky to even have a gov't. The Japanese and Australian gov'ts basically funded the election process.
The should and will enact the legislation needed. The gotta take care of some basic duties before that happens like a budget etc etc. Give em another year after the first swearing in of the newly elected gov't.
If I've learned 1 thing in teaching students is sometimes you need to be firm when you have given them every chance to succeded but other times you have to be lax because they have been hindered by forces outside of their control.
<strong>
There would be no reason to voluntarily stop importing from Fiji. CITES is not saying that the collection in Fiji is unsustainable or that the reefs there are in danger. CITES wants legislation in the Fijian government that has the particular wording necessary for countries that participate in CITES. The problem with Fiji is that they had a coup attempt that crippled the government for over a year. They just conducted elections the end of August and the new government has had higher priorities to work on. Frankly, I think CITES should cut them a little slack until they can get the new government established. This is a paperwork thing, not a sustainability thing. And I abhor paperwork
I would second that. I was in fiji when the new government was "sworn" in. To show you have disfuntional the gov't is, George Speight, the leader of the coup, was elected to parliment and even tried to get a day pass out of jail to attend the meeting.
The fijian gov't is barely getting off their feet. Elections are a big thing down there and basically consume the country. The problem is there are basically 2 parties in the country and the ethnics basically vote along them. There are splinter groups on both sides but as a whole there are 2 groups. There are so many levels to the quagmire found in fijian gov't.
Let's put it this way:
Fire every person in congress and the president. Impose a deadline for legislation to be enacted then proceed to elect a new gov't etc etc. And throw in there some deep rooted hatred for 50% of the population. Ad a pinch of Sept 11th (yes it did have an affect over there) Then throw in a dash of 80% of the police is Fijian and 80% of the military is Indian-Fijian. Mix in a pot and voila you now have fiji
The fijians are lucky to even have a gov't. The Japanese and Australian gov'ts basically funded the election process.
The should and will enact the legislation needed. The gotta take care of some basic duties before that happens like a budget etc etc. Give em another year after the first swearing in of the newly elected gov't.
If I've learned 1 thing in teaching students is sometimes you need to be firm when you have given them every chance to succeded but other times you have to be lax because they have been hindered by forces outside of their control.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fishaholic:
<strong>Odd three people in the "Industry" making light of CITES.
Don't see that. I see people refering the the polical situation in Fiji and how it could have caused the CITES situation to happen.
Looking at the GNP in exports of Fiji show that fish is their 2nd largest export.
What was #1. I would bet tourism if that is considered a GNP. If not it's probably sugar cane or maybe garments. I also doubt ornamental fish is a large portion of that #2 ranking. They ahve a huge tuna canning plant on Ovalau.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/t5816e/t5816e0a.htm
There is a chart on fiji's catch.
I would think any government would want to protect their major exports and take the appropiate measure to continue income.
Gotta have one to enact legislation.
I assure you that when due to their lack of co-oprertion with programs such as CITES these same people bemouning paperwork and yuking it up will be the first to get their panties in a wad when the import of such animals is restricted.</strong><hr></blockquote>
PFFT
<strong>Odd three people in the "Industry" making light of CITES.
Don't see that. I see people refering the the polical situation in Fiji and how it could have caused the CITES situation to happen.
Looking at the GNP in exports of Fiji show that fish is their 2nd largest export.
What was #1. I would bet tourism if that is considered a GNP. If not it's probably sugar cane or maybe garments. I also doubt ornamental fish is a large portion of that #2 ranking. They ahve a huge tuna canning plant on Ovalau.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/t5816e/t5816e0a.htm
There is a chart on fiji's catch.
I would think any government would want to protect their major exports and take the appropiate measure to continue income.
Gotta have one to enact legislation.
I assure you that when due to their lack of co-oprertion with programs such as CITES these same people bemouning paperwork and yuking it up will be the first to get their panties in a wad when the import of such animals is restricted.</strong><hr></blockquote>
PFFT
Ah yes another opportunity for Bill to show his intelligence.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Baw hah hah Oh stop your killing me. You even qouted the statement in bold. It says EXPORT goober.
For those wondering the #1 export is Sugar, not the Fiji government exporting its citizens for vacations, This forum if for nothing else is good for a laugh.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Baw hah hah Oh stop your killing me. You even qouted the statement in bold. It says EXPORT goober.
For those wondering the #1 export is Sugar, not the Fiji government exporting its citizens for vacations, This forum if for nothing else is good for a laugh.
Chucker
Ask your fellow Administrator, I think he does a good enough job of setting an example.
Or perhaps you would favor Mary's approuch of gettng in a dig and then posting a smily face
I am a member of other BB's and have never flamed anyone, peraps it is how this board is run and who is leading it?
Ask your fellow Administrator, I think he does a good enough job of setting an example.
Or perhaps you would favor Mary's approuch of gettng in a dig and then posting a smily face
I am a member of other BB's and have never flamed anyone, peraps it is how this board is run and who is leading it?
Gross National Product:
Definition: The Gross National Product (or GNP) is comprised of taking the Gross Domestic Product (GNP) and addiing it to the income of domestic residents resulting from foreign investments subtracted by the earned income in domestic markets by foreigners.
Gross Domestic Product
Definition: The Gross Domestic Product [or GDP] is calculated by taking the goods, services, and products produced overtime and determining their market value. It includes the income made by foreign residents and corporations working in the
United States, but does not include the income of United States residents and corporations that are outside of the country [overseas].
http://beginnersinvest.about.com/library/glossary/bldef-grossdomesticproduct.htm
Don't know if it cleared anything up but I would guess tourism produces goods and services overtime. Exportation is not stated anywhere, but i'm sure that can be debated. But I'm not an Economist also.
Definition: The Gross National Product (or GNP) is comprised of taking the Gross Domestic Product (GNP) and addiing it to the income of domestic residents resulting from foreign investments subtracted by the earned income in domestic markets by foreigners.
Gross Domestic Product
Definition: The Gross Domestic Product [or GDP] is calculated by taking the goods, services, and products produced overtime and determining their market value. It includes the income made by foreign residents and corporations working in the
United States, but does not include the income of United States residents and corporations that are outside of the country [overseas].
http://beginnersinvest.about.com/library/glossary/bldef-grossdomesticproduct.htm
Don't know if it cleared anything up but I would guess tourism produces goods and services overtime. Exportation is not stated anywhere, but i'm sure that can be debated. But I'm not an Economist also.
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