Algae Analysis : What can It be ?

[meschaefer]

Well interesting enough the first time it became cloudy was before i even got the elements in a bottle lol ... the 2nd time (present) is just a coincidence ...

Will try the water changes but with any algae bloom it can makes things worse, it can't hurt so ill try it to some degree and let everyone know the outcome ...

Kathy was changing the carbon every 2 weeks ... i feel as if maybe the carbon became to exhausted by the time i realized it the tank was getting cloudy, but question why is the carbon the only thing keeping the tank clear?
That cant be right, can it?

how do yopu know it is a coincidence... could be two separate causes.

Get rid of the snake oil. I bet you can't find someone trusted on this board with a killer tank, or RC tank of the month that uses that stuff.

How do you know that it you are dosing the correct amount? Do you know what is in it? Are you testing those parameters before you dose, so that you can dose a controled amount.

General rule that deserves to be in caps and big...

DON'T DOSE WHAT YOUR NOT TESTING FOR.

 

[KathyC]

Carbon removes impurities in water. Your cloudiness seems to be some sort of impurity... algae, bacteria, some additive..that's what none of us knows for sure.

You're not putting anything else in there are you? Algaecides that are overdone always color the water the way your tank looks..just a thought...you never know what is in a product you add. As Eric said, you don't know what is in that bottle of 'essential' elements... Could also be two different things since your tank is young.
One step at a time

btw..I dip some part of my clothing in my tank just about every day..and I have yet to cloud my water by doing so...lol

 

[Chris5]

ok so here is the deal, its getting worse by the day ... nothing seems to be making it less cloudy in fact its getting green again ... I have no idea what the issue is, and am getting very frustrated ....

Its definitely an algae bloom coming from something, how i can have excess nutrients in the tank being so new is beyond me ... unless its a cycle of some kind and by doing the water changes adds these nutrients back into the tank, but that doesn't make sense

As for now im stunned and the thought of restarting is not an option, either is more water changes which i knew would only make things worse ... the skimmer is skimming, the filter is filtering, all is working ... either phosphates are out of control or something is very off .... going to get a phos test today to check ....

I've limited the lighting once again,
Limited the feeding
and added some new carbon

And will wait, patience will power and the fact that i went through this before and it was the worst anyone could ever experience is the only thing holding me from selling it off ....

 

[wxl14]

Get one of those phosphate pads that you can run through your filter. Just to see if you can get this under control. I am sure you will figure it out.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

chris me personally I would take the sand out and change all the water and see what happens from there......

 

[Chris5]

Tony,

Did you ever see my other posts 2 yrs ago with the green water incident ...
I think they are stickies for green algae bloom issues with the amount of help i received ...

Doing 2 full water changes and swapping out the sand while cleaning the whole tank from top to bottom only to find out it would come back with a vengeance ...

I know your trying to help, jeez i wish someone had the answer but its not that simple, and for some reason im like one of xxx who has this occur lol ...

Research says don't attempt to change the water it only makes it worse and thats one thing thats a fact ... and i hate to say it but algone got me out of a big jam with that tank, and it never came back ...

and as for my detective work the last thing i may add to the scenerio that i was thinking was that my tank is near a window but with no visible light coming through, is it possible the draft of the window somehow messes with the water? Now im just fishing for answers i know ...

so i guess i should be asking myself whats in algone that makes green water clear, and why doesn't it come back after?

PS- my phosphate tests show .5 on the scale ... not that significant for what im going through .. and i had to cut the lights completely because it was getting worse

 

[Wes]

.5 is way high.

 

[sporty]

Chris I had the same situation when I first set up my tank and had done a major water change in anticipation of some corals that I had ordered from foster smith and the tank was cloudy for a while a think I narrowed it down to a" bacterial" bloom.I would try and ease up a little on the water changes and give them more light.

 

[House of Laughter]

chris, what salt are you using? and how are you doing water changes - any mechanical filtration aside from the pad you just put in?

House

 

[Chris5]

Guys,

Using I/O Salt ... AquaClear with Phos-pad and Carbon and the Remora Skimmer ... Water changes weekly/bi weekly 10% using a pump and tube to flow into bucket ... same way back in ... pretty easy that way ...

I guess at this point will start a log here of what goes on and how long it takes to clear ... if it ever does ... :irked:

Day 3:

After cutting the lights at like 4 yesterday afternoon with no feedings either all together, woke up this morning to the actinic's and its somewhat better but it usually is in the morning ... don't think i am gonna run the 10ks today at all to see if that helps ...

 

[Chris5]

Well looks like my worst fears are here ... just got home, tank looks like 1 step below my 65g when it happened than .. at least now i can see the rocks somewhat ... green as anything ...

So at this point my only idea is that its the window its near, blinds completely closed up and shrink wrapped over since its the window with my AC unit in it barely any light comes in ...

Algone it is ... unless anyone thinks they know how to fix it and at this point if the stuff works again well i can tell you its not a band aid, but something more like a miracle worker ... hopefully if it did its job in the 65g it will work here ...

Also as a side not my corals couldnt be happier lol, and the green nepthia that i thought was gone (a cutting from HOF) has now reappeared and is 3x the size ...

 

[meschaefer]

.5 on a phosphate test kit is very high, especially since I doubt that you are using a very accurate test kit, and IME they tend to err on the low side. I will say it again, your phosphates are very high.... and probably the cause of your problems.

You don't need anymore snake oils, whether it is essential elements or alagone you just need to get your water chemistry in check. Run some phosban, and it is going to take more than three days for your situation to clear up.

What House wanted to know in regards to water changes is, are you using RO/DI water to do water changes? There is no use in doing water changes if you are just adding more garbage back into your system.

 

[Chris5]

Well first off i wanna say thanks to all those who want to help out,

Just curious though how you can assume im not using an accurate phos kit?? Also did you ever ask if i went through this before? Which is a huge yes...which means i tried everything under the sun, including phosphate removers galore ... no help there and i can bet no help here .... the only coincidence is the tank location is the same, so therefore one can assume that maybe being next to a window is a bad thing on 2 separate occasions

Yes i can try doing the phos stuff with everything else, but the end result is getting the water column balanced again, which its not ...

Snake oil on the elements maybe, but the algone, well unless you know exactly whats in there i wouldn't knock it, considering it did do what it was suppose to do 1x already for me with proof in the pictures and posts ...

I can't hate on something that worked ... we can all learn from whats going on here and i know most wanna now the issue at hand (which is a green algae bloom loaded with phytoplankton) and what exactly is causing it ..Maybe its phosphates but than wouldn't the media take care of it, and if it doesn't what does that mean than ?

And yes i know tap water kills, and no im not using it, but in retrospect my first tank without any knowledge of MR or SW i used a garden hose to fill up my tank, and for a year i never had a single problem yet alone this kind of issue ... only 2 tanks went through this thus far and its been as bad as it is ... ironically the 2 are the one's with ro/di water ... and yes i check the filters in the units they are brand new ..

Some probably scratch there head at this, me too, especially when i say i don't do much to this tank except the basics (water changes, change media etc..) and being its so new what really could i have done to create such an outbreak ...

 

[Pinkheine]

Have you checked the RO/DI water itself? Tested what is going in, and then seeing what is coming out?

You also say the tank is new, so isn't that in and of itself a reason why things like these happen? I could see if it was an established tank and had been stable for a long period of time being shocked about this.

As for the tank being near the window I don't see it turning the entire tank green if there isn't something else going on to feed the algae bloom so fiercely. We had a 125 gallon that was in full sun most of the day and never had a problem like the one you have pictured and are describing.

Have you taken your water anywhere to have them test it for you as well? We had done that in the past when we had things going on that we weren't sure about. Tested and cross tested with someone elses results and see what came to be, if ours was the same or not... to try and isolate the cause.

Sorry for your frustration with the tank. Hope you figure out an option other than dosing with Algone, I have no personal experience with it, or anything against it... but from experience in the past when we had used additives to fix what nature should have on its own the results came back and bit us in the ass in the end. Good luck.

 

[meschaefer]

Well first off i wanna say thanks to all those who want to help out,

Just curious though how you can assume im not using an accurate phos kit?? Also did you ever ask if i went through this before? Which is a huge yes...which means i tried everything under the sun, including phosphate removers galore ... no help there and i can bet no help here .... the only coincidence is the tank location is the same, so therefore one can assume that maybe being next to a window is a bad thing on 2 separate occasions

Yes i can try doing the phos stuff with everything else, but the end result is getting the water column balanced again, which its not ...

Snake oil on the elements maybe, but the algone, well unless you know exactly whats in there i wouldn't knock it, considering it did do what it was suppose to do 1x already for me with proof in the pictures and posts ...

I can't hate on something that worked ... we can all learn from whats going on here and i know most wanna now the issue at hand (which is a green algae bloom loaded with phytoplankton) and what exactly is causing it ..Maybe its phosphates but than wouldn't the media take care of it, and if it doesn't what does that mean than ?

And yes i know tap water kills, and no im not using it, but in retrospect my first tank without any knowledge of MR or SW i used a garden hose to fill up my tank, and for a year i never had a single problem yet alone this kind of issue ... only 2 tanks went through this thus far and its been as bad as it is ... ironically the 2 are the one's with ro/di water ... and yes i check the filters in the units they are brand new ..

Some probably scratch there head at this, me too, especially when i say i don't do much to this tank except the basics (water changes, change media etc..) and being its so new what really could i have done to create such an outbreak ...

Unless you went and purchased a colorimeter it is not accurate. I figured that you didn't buy one as they are special order type of item that would have been hard to get within two days. But forget that, even if it is .5 measured on colorimeter it is still to high.... once again your phosphates are to high and probably the source of your problem. To add to that, they are hard to test for on a tank with an algae problem. When you have high concentrations of algae, the algae tends to use it up as it becomes available, as a result it does not register on a test.

I "hate" on algone, because they wont tell you what is in it. That in my book is snake oil. It allegedly fixes imbalances, how can it do that? In order to fix an imbalance you need to know what your individual levels are, and then adjust each one independently to a desired range. That requires testing, and controlled dosing. A magic bullet can not do that.

It may have worked before, but that is not the point. You are having problems because there is a problem with your husbandry. There is something that you are doing that is causing this issue, and it would seem to me that you would want to figure that out to prevent this from happening again.

If your water is green it is algae, and algae problems are not mysterious. They have certain requirements... light and food. Alage will grow until they no longer have what they need. You can't get rid of the light on a reef tank. A major source of food for them, and a necessary element for growth is phosphate. If you have elevated phosphates algae will grow, if you have low levels of phosphates it will not. As I said, your phosphates are high and most likely the cause of your problem.

I recommend the phosphate media, because your phosphates are high. Fix your phosphates and I bet your problem will clear up.

You assert that you have tried phosphate removing media in the past. Which one did you use? How did you use it?... actively (i.e. through a reactor- good) or passively (i.e. a bag in a high flow area - not so good). How often did you change it? Many brands claim they are good for "6 months", which is a load of bull. On my 65, I tested (with a colorimeter) phosphate removing media, becoming exhausted within three days on a tank loaded with phosphates.

Phosphates are hard to control, but doable. Phosphates are added to the water primarily by food. But are also added in many supplements, salt mixes (even those that say "phosphate free" in bold), they may have been present in large concentrations on your live rock when you started the tank, and they may even added by your RO/DI water.

 

[Chris5]

Well it is true, like the snake oil, right on the bottle it says does not contain phosphates which i bet is a load of BS ...

As for the media did do it in a wet/dry sump area, lots of flow to pass through it but im sure not as effective as a phos-reactor ..which i am looking into right now, either the phos-reactor made by phosban or the Nautilus reactor either one is good its the pump that i should be asking on, def needs to be 100gph or so ive heard ...

If indeed it is the phosphates i will bow-down but something tells me its not that ...dunno why just gut feeling ... will make that my priority at this point and will post results ...

As for the algone, its a media, just like carbon, the fact that no one knows whats in it is interesting, but again it did work, as for balancing it out well yes fixing it by process of elimination is the right way, but when dealing with a tank of this color, clear first, result back to the right way later is my impulse ... Husbandry well as for not using a phos media as part of my daily routine i can't see anything else i didn't do .... again ive had other tanks and never had this problem, and ive also had this happen 1x before so its a crap shoot, and a variable that to me is up in the air still ...

Again much appreciated on your knowledge and wisdom, just looking to clear the water and be on my way so i can get back to enjoying not dreading looking at the tank ....

 

[Wes]

If indeed it is the phosphates i will bow-down but something tells me its not that ...dunno why just gut feeling ... will make that my priority at this point and will post results ...

IT IS PHOSPHATES! you don't just get crazy algae outbreaks like this if you don't have high phosphate levels.

This is getting frustrating, it's pretty obvious what your problem is and you are getting good advice here, but you refuse to take it. Why even ask for help if you don't take any of the advice?

If phosphates are low, you won't have algae problems. PERIOD

it doesn't matter what kind of light your tank is getting if your keep your levels right. Some people light there tanks on nothing but sunlight and don't have algae problems...Not because they use algone, because they keep their levels in check. Algone may kill your algae, but it's just going to come right back if you don't get those phosphates down.

 

[jhale]

To add to that, they are hard to test for on a tank with an algae problem. When you have high concentrations of algae, the algae tends to use it up as it becomes available, as a result it does not register on a test.

a very important point, it should be repeated, in green like the algae :splitspin

 

[Chris5]

IT IS PHOSPHATES! you don't just get crazy algae outbreaks like this if you don't have high phosphate levels.

This is getting frustrating, it's pretty obvious what your problem is and you are getting good advice here, but you refuse to take it. Why even ask for help if you don't take any of the advice?

If phosphates are low, you won't have algae problems. PERIOD

it doesn't matter what kind of light your tank is getting if your keep your levels right. Some people light there tanks on nothing but sunlight and don't have algae problems...Not because they use algone, because they keep their levels in check. Algone may kill your algae, but it's just going to come right back if you don't get those phosphates down.

appreciate your help, but relax on the refusal talk, its just my interest in finding the root cause, its not that i don't believe or cant accept its phosphates ..its that it confuses me on the fact that some people run tanks on pure tap water and never have a phosphate problem (i being one of them years ago and im sure others) others run great mechanical and chemical media while others do it by the books the natural way and it still shows up ...somehow someway these phosphates turn a reef into a photosynthesis looking freshwater pond .... :dead1:

It shouldn't be frustrating to you at all, im the one up to my elbows literally in pea soup ... gonna go the phos reactor way and see how it goes, .... if it doesn;t clear up within a month from when i start it, well than we'll all just have to have a brainstorming party at my place and stare at a beautiful green tank .. :irked:

This is not meant to be a personal thread hating on my tank or the advice given, again i personally thank everyone helping! Everyone's advice is being used in my attempt to terminate the problem, the best advice at this point is running a phos-reactor and seeing if that does the trick ...

 

[jhale]

Chris it's impossible to use tap water and not have higher PO4 than a "normal" healthy reef would. I'm sure there are some poor reefs struggling to grow in polluted waters, but that's not what we like to model our home based reefs on. It's much better to remove pollutants from the tap water before they go into your tank!

Getting the Po4 out of the tank won't hurt anything that's for sure.