just saw this link on another forum, about BANNING home aquariums
"The Dark Hobby" by Robert Wintner
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"The Dark Hobby" by Robert Wintner
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aquarium BAN!!!!
- Thread starter albano
- Start date
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
The Author "Snorkle Bob" is a know industry hater, who just happens to run a dive business in HI that directly competes with hobby industries over turf.
SOOO, you're NOT inviting him, to speak at the swap?
AlohaTropics
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- Long Island
There is such a gray area and different ways to look at this. I believe that reckless harvesting is a terrible thing for the reefs. But I also believe that without harvesting, the change of climate, global warming, and just evolution of life will kill off much of the coral reefs. They are naturally receding (of course much of which is associated to what humans do to the environment) and in 100 years, captive aquaculture and the home hobbyist could be the only real reefs left. So in a way, you can kind of call each of us a conservationist as we are saving some of what is disappearing in nature.
Like I said, this is very grey because there are tons of things that can change in the industry to make it better. But this article that blatantly calls for a witch hunt by tearing down all home aquariums is just as flawed and grey in it's purpose as well.
I always believed that there should be a license required to house any complex reef system or marine species. That license will ensure that the hobbyist has gone through the proper education and training for keeping such aquariums. That should weed out all the newbies that jump in and end up killing everything, sometimes in days.
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Like I said, this is very grey because there are tons of things that can change in the industry to make it better. But this article that blatantly calls for a witch hunt by tearing down all home aquariums is just as flawed and grey in it's purpose as well.
I always believed that there should be a license required to house any complex reef system or marine species. That license will ensure that the hobbyist has gone through the proper education and training for keeping such aquariums. That should weed out all the newbies that jump in and end up killing everything, sometimes in days.
Sent from my iPhone using Reefs
- Location
- New Jersey
Read the numbers
If what the guy says is true, its disgusting
2 - 10 Million YELLOW TANGs a year. Thats horrible.
If what the guy says is true, its disgusting
2 - 10 Million YELLOW TANGs a year. Thats horrible.
- Location
- westchester
hahaha @ albano but really I feel that the aquarium hobby actually helps marine life in the oceans because people like us know what marine life needs to stay healthy and we care about it so we really are trying to help more than hurt usually. we also help by sharing corals with other people so that we don't take from the oceans.
- Location
- Franklin Square, NY
as long as the license is free, we pay enough for stuff in this hobby....LOL
conflict of interest or not, the guy has a point. as for fenners argument that there are lots of other things that are also adversely impacting the reefs is pretty weak imho. its the equivalent of getting arrested for mugging a guy, and then asking the cop why he is arresting you when there are MURDERERS out there...
whether or not there are greater sources of harm to the reefs, i think it is disingenuous to imply that our hobby is somehow beneficial given the and huge mortality rates associated with it.
as for the argument that we are somehow increasing our knowledge of what these creatures need to survive, i don't really buy it. unless you honestly believe that what the reefs need is mysis and stress coat...
imho, we are flat out causing destruction to the reefs through our hobby, and also having a negative impact on our local environment (think caluerpa in cali). I don't pretend to have any solution to this, and i am not yet ready to quit the hobby (in much the same way as I am not ready to give up on meat) but to pretend that there aren't serious consequences that we are not directly responsible for, is just wrong.
whether or not there are greater sources of harm to the reefs, i think it is disingenuous to imply that our hobby is somehow beneficial given the and huge mortality rates associated with it.
as for the argument that we are somehow increasing our knowledge of what these creatures need to survive, i don't really buy it. unless you honestly believe that what the reefs need is mysis and stress coat...
imho, we are flat out causing destruction to the reefs through our hobby, and also having a negative impact on our local environment (think caluerpa in cali). I don't pretend to have any solution to this, and i am not yet ready to quit the hobby (in much the same way as I am not ready to give up on meat) but to pretend that there aren't serious consequences that we are not directly responsible for, is just wrong.
- Location
- westchester
Jrobbins that is a very strong argument and I also believe that we need to stop taking from the reefs and keep all the aquarium trade in the aquariums. So what we do need to do is learn more about breeding fish so that we don't need to take from the reefs.
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
No argument from me Jon, but my point is that this guy is reportedly not a reliable source, has his own agenda, and his statistics and accusations need to be challenged. Regulation and reform need to be based on reality, not hysteria. And the notion that shutting down an entire industry some how protects the reefs is flawed, in that those that depend on that industry are often forced to exploit the same resources in even more destructive ways. If your livelihood depends on keeping reefs alive, it is far more likely you will take measures to do so. If that is no longer available to you and you have no other options what do you think people will do?
Hawaii is not really the best example for this as most folks would have other options, but that is not the case in the areas of the world where most of our aquarium critters come from.
Hawaii is not really the best example for this as most folks would have other options, but that is not the case in the areas of the world where most of our aquarium critters come from.
i agree with you randy. the guy is a total nut. the unfortunate part of this is that the nut is actually making some good (or at least valid) points.
as for the argument that if we prevent collection for the trade there will be even more destructive consequences, well, i guess i agree with that too. where i disagree is that this should be an argument for doing nothing. this is the classic position that powerholders use to maintain the status quo. the "yeah, we know things are crappy and we made them this way, but god only knows how much worse it will be if we change" its the argument that the banks made last year, its the argument that the oil industry tries to make regarding new energy technology, deep water drilling, etc.
i guess my final issue would be with the theory that collection makes people more likely to preserve the reefs. looking at our previous record of sustainable harvest, i am not so sure that this is the case. i would even go so far as to say we as humans have over-exploited almost every resource we have come across, leaving mostly devastation in our wake. just look at the state of the worlds fisheries, which were supposed to be sustainably managed for the last 40 years or so, and that is a much bigger business with much bigger consequences than ornamental fish...
as for the argument that if we prevent collection for the trade there will be even more destructive consequences, well, i guess i agree with that too. where i disagree is that this should be an argument for doing nothing. this is the classic position that powerholders use to maintain the status quo. the "yeah, we know things are crappy and we made them this way, but god only knows how much worse it will be if we change" its the argument that the banks made last year, its the argument that the oil industry tries to make regarding new energy technology, deep water drilling, etc.
i guess my final issue would be with the theory that collection makes people more likely to preserve the reefs. looking at our previous record of sustainable harvest, i am not so sure that this is the case. i would even go so far as to say we as humans have over-exploited almost every resource we have come across, leaving mostly devastation in our wake. just look at the state of the worlds fisheries, which were supposed to be sustainably managed for the last 40 years or so, and that is a much bigger business with much bigger consequences than ornamental fish...
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
I have no argument with any of this.
- Location
- westchester
I agree that we cant to nothing if as humans we did nothing ever than we would have gotten no where
im all for the license thing based on taking an exam, that would save a ton of coral and fish!!! but..then the prices of fish and coral would rise in response. 
i do love how i says that they dont last a year....lol my uncle has a 1o year old tang and a 20 year old tomato clown, and neither show signs of kicking the bucket...er tank.
i do love how i says that they dont last a year....lol my uncle has a 1o year old tang and a 20 year old tomato clown, and neither show signs of kicking the bucket...er tank.
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- Location
- Far Rockaway
One day they will turn to us for frags to repopulate the ocean . Then thats when there be greatfull that us hobbyist are here.
"One day they will turn to us for frags, to repopulate the ocean.
Then, that's when they'll be grateful that us, hobbyist are here."
That WE had the foresight, to glue these tiny coral pieces, to ceramic disks... knowing that one day, everyone would acknowledge us, as the TRUE SAVIORS of the PLANET!
Don't hold your breath!
Then, that's when they'll be grateful that us, hobbyist are here."
That WE had the foresight, to glue these tiny coral pieces, to ceramic disks... knowing that one day, everyone would acknowledge us, as the TRUE SAVIORS of the PLANET!
Don't hold your breath!
- Location
- Elizabeth, NJ
We can only do our best by buying aquacultered corals, tank bred fish, and educate newbies the best we can. Also by killing all the money hungry LFS who dont give a crap about where these animals are going ( just joking ). +2 on the licensce idea, that was a pretty good idea.
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