Varied Ph result

[Anonymous]

another two things to look into for chronic problems is to verify your test kit with a meter reading if you know someone with a meter or the shop. another complaint is a bad batch of salt. test your fresh mixed batch and see what that gives you.

 

[Sponge_Bob]

AHHhhh I see the short bus has a new passenger.
Do they make you wear your keys around your neck yet sponge bob?

Listen Frag, Len has been quite clear about this sort of personnal attack. He told all of us that it had to stop. Now, I notice that nothing, as far as I can tell, was done about the above post, which means that you somehow escape the rules or they do not apply to everyone on this board equally.

That being said, I kindly ask you to keep your sarcastic or caustic remarks out of the public forum. I would also like you to get off my back and move on. If you have a personnal problem with me, take it on with me in private, not in the public forum as we were told.

Further insults, sarcasm or personnal attacks will be responded to in public. If the Admins fail to stop you with their warning, I sure will not tolerate any form of bullsh*t coming from you without a reply.

 

[Len]

AHHhhh I see the short bus has a new passenger.
Do they make you wear your keys around your neck yet sponge bob?

Fragmaster has been temp banned for repeated warnings against flaming and insults.

 

[Len]

Listen Frag, Len has been quite clear about this sort of personnal attack. He told all of us that it had to stop. Now, I notice that nothing, as far as I can tell, was done about the above post, which means that you somehow escape the rules or they do not apply to everyone on this board equally.

FYI: I tire of these unfair accusations of bias. I am not a machine and can not be expected to review every post at every waking hour.

 

[Sponge_Bob]

Listen Frag, Len has been quite clear about this sort of personnal attack. He told all of us that it had to stop. Now, I notice that nothing, as far as I can tell, was done about the above post, which means that you somehow escape the rules or they do not apply to everyone on this board equally.

FYI: I tire of these unfair accusations of bias. I am not a machine and can not be expected to review every post at every waking hour.

Your actions in this matter prove that it is not the case and you are not biased at all. I therefore ask your forgiveness and offer you my most sincere apologies publically.

 

[fishaddict]

Huh?

 

[Mihai]

It seems to be a thing with the name of "Bob" and bad advice. It must be a molecular attraction . The rudeness must come from the sponge, as PLB was never rude IMO.

Regarding the initial question I believe that the guy that asked it is a noob, so he does need a chemistry 101 (not from SB). So here it goes:

pH is tied to Alk and CO2. Actually, for a given Alk and CO2 concentration, there should be a fixed pH (as shown in Randy's article). If the pH is low, either Alk is low or CO2 is high. Your first task is to figure out which of them is off, the second is to fix it.

For Alk, the easiest way is to measure is using a good kit. I only know a good one - Salifert and a bad one: RedSea. If it's off (i.e., low) then you need to add some buffer. Usually, when Alk is low, Ca is low as well, so you normally need to also add Ca.

For CO2, you can try to get the sample and aerate it outside the house (maybe for 1 hour with an airstone on the deck). Then measure the pH again. If it increased you're high on CO2 in the tank. Now there are two posibilities:
1) - either the CO2 in the house is ok (normal or only slightly up) and you don't have a good exchange of gas. You can fix that first by getting a skimmer, then by using an overflow or a powerhead that produces surface agitation.

2) or the CO2 in the house is on the high side and then surface agitation will not help. In this case you should either bring air from outside (either in the entire house or just for the tank) or get somebody that eats CO2 in the tank. That somebody can be kalkwasser, or, even better, (...drums....),
macroalgae, known to PLB as "plant life". For this very reason, many people run their sumps filled with macroalgae on a reverse light cycle (i.e., ligts in the sump are on when lights in the tank are off and the other way around).

Finally, I'd make sure that my pH measurements are good by testing with a different method (your LFS should do that for free).

I think this summarizes the technical part. For the social part... I'll refrain myself this time .

M.

 

[Anonymous]

Here's my bottom line

We have a cycling tank

ammonia is zero

nitrates 10ppm

ph 7.9

And 6 pages of tit for tat, flames, name calling and so on.

 

[Len]

It seems to be a thing with the name of "Bob" and bad advice. It must be a molecular attraction . The rudeness must come from the sponge, as PLB was never rude IMO.

Hey Mihai,
The rest of your post is terrific, but we could do without the above which unnecessarily fans the flames.

 

[Mihai]

Sorry Len, couldn't help myself . I had a lot more in bag and this was what was left after two edits . I guess that I need to go to three of more edits before pushing that submit button .

Take care,
Mihai

 

[Sponge_Bob]

It seems to be a thing with the name of "Bob" and bad advice. It must be a molecular attraction . The rudeness must come from the sponge, as PLB was never rude IMO.

Regarding the initial question I believe that the guy that asked it is a noob, so he does need a chemistry 101 (not from SB). So here it goes:

pH is tied to Alk and CO2. Actually, for a given Alk and CO2 concentration, there should be a fixed pH (as shown in Randy's article). If the pH is low, either Alk is low or CO2 is high. Your first task is to figure out which of them is off, the second is to fix it.

For Alk, the easiest way is to measure is using a good kit. I only know a good one - Salifert and a bad one: RedSea. If it's off (i.e., low) then you need to add some buffer. Usually, when Alk is low, Ca is low as well, so you normally need to also add Ca.

For CO2, you can try to get the sample and aerate it outside the house (maybe for 1 hour with an airstone on the deck). Then measure the pH again. If it increased you're high on CO2 in the tank. Now there are two posibilities:
1) - either the CO2 in the house is ok (normal or only slightly up) and you don't have a good exchange of gas. You can fix that first by getting a skimmer, then by using an overflow or a powerhead that produces surface agitation.

2) or the CO2 in the house is on the high side and then surface agitation will not help. In this case you should either bring air from outside (either in the entire house or just for the tank) or get somebody that eats CO2 in the tank. That somebody can be kalkwasser, or, even better, (...drums....),
macroalgae, known to PLB as "plant life". For this very reason, many people run their sumps filled with macroalgae on a reverse light cycle (i.e., ligts in the sump are on when lights in the tank are off and the other way around).

Finally, I'd make sure that my pH measurements are good by testing with a different method (your LFS should do that for free).

I think this summarizes the technical part. For the social part... I'll refrain myself this time .

M.

Funny to see that I did mention that low Alk is usually acidic. Funny also that I did mention that CO2 will produce acid and therefore reduce the pH. Also funny, I did mention surface agitation and the use of a buffer to correct the problem.

Funny also to see that you call you post a chemistry 101 course when you don't even remotely explain the relation between alkalinity and pH. You don't address the buffer issue as well. What I find mostly funny is that you label it "the technical" part.

Seems to me that you only posted what has been already said by me (and others) and that gave you an excuse to flame me. I find it a bit funny that you bring up all that I've already said pages ago but at the same time, in the premise of your post, you say that Bob and Bad answers seem to go together. So, either your name is Bob and gave bad answers or your premise is false and is solely entended to personnally attack/flame me. So which one of the two is it? If I recall right, Len did mention that this thread would be closed if the flaming continued.

I rest my case. No further comment.

 

[Len]

I don't think there will be any utility left in leaving this thread open. Start a new thread if you folks want to discuss chemistry in detail.

Please stop the flames, inflammatory baits, and condescension. I know that most folks find Sponge Bob's personality very abrasive and hard to socialize with, but this does not give license to hurl insults. If he acts out of line again, let me know and I'll deal with it. Please, no more trading barbs and perpetuating/escalating conflicts. Be responsible for your own actions. Do your part in helping keep our discussions constructive and friendly.