Crustacean Video

[chockablock]

MPEG

 

[Juck]

Yikes lol

 

[krullulon]

i'm pretty sure these are the same guys who would get a big kick out of two dogs fighting each other to the death.

that's just... unnecessary. although i have no problem with keeping predatory marine life and feeding it live food, there's a difference when you do so for laughs.

people suck.

 

[Carpentersreef]

:?

That should be deleted.

Lack of respect for life isn't what this website is about. :evil:

Mitch

 

[chockablock]

comeon.. its a crawfish... how many fishermen stick their hooks into crawfish to use for bait? Do lobsters enjoy getting dumped in boiling hot water and being cooked alive? the crawfish are sold as feeders and thats what it was used for... would it be any less cruel to deny a captive animal food?

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Chock... - How do you explain the arrow crab vs. mantis video then?

Don't put your tail between your legs and say you don't get a kick out of it. - The sick bast**d in me does too! :twisted:

Difference is, I wouldn't intentionally set it up.. :wink:

I got a better idea... - Show us some video of "battles" between mantis or pistols and their owners... - You know, fleshy fingers vs. crusty claws. :twisted:

 

[Anonymous]

chock . . .
Your argument falls short, I think. You seem to be arguing that, well the crawdads are raised for feeding, so, that's just the way it is. So are chickens, but I don't see a difference between your vid and watching my dog tear up a chicken in the back yard and laughing with a couple of ******* friends about it.

So what is it? It's that you think it's "bitchin, awesome dude" to watch an animal get beat to death. See? It's not the feeding that bugs folks, it's your pleasure at watching the massacre.

 

[Len]

Not trying to be a politician, but I can honestly see where both sides are coming from. I really think the issue wouldn't have been raised if the background commentaries were more respectful, mature, or removed entirely.

Whether we like to admit it or not, a lot of people do derive entertainment out of observing the act of predation. I think the intent of this act is at the heart of the matter. That said, I can't conclude with any degree of confidence the intent for which the crawfish was introduced to the tank.

 

[nice1bruva]

i got slated for dissin' a video/subject like this in the mantis forum.
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=52539
the commentary on this mpeg 'crustatean video' tells me all i need to know.
it's an embarresment to this site.
a mod should delete both videos.
:evil:

 

[Carpentersreef]

Feeding an animal live food that it requires is one thing.
Posting the videos as entertainment is another.

There's a line between keeping proper care of an animal and keeping it so you can entertain yourselves and others, watching two animals "fight to the death".
I think that the line was crossed, and it's supported by the soundtrack of this video, the commentary of the arrowcrab video in the mantis forum and the stark environment that the mantis is being kept in.

I don't see a whole lot of care being given to the mantis.


Mitch

 

[jwm2k3]

The mantis has to eat, no?

How many freshwater Oscar owners are there out there? Ever see one of them eat? How about large snake owners that feed rabbits?

C'mon. Dont be a bunch of wussies....


Cry about something else.

 

[reefann]

These guys are sick but not sick enough to get kicks from violence they inflict, so they keep predators and videotape the canarge. If they love carnage so much why not just buy a live cicken and kill it with hammers then eat it........ But then again a lot of the meat some of you eat goes through FAR WORSE but you dont see it so you dont care......Hmmm
And Jwm I do agree I work at a LFS and sell sooooooooo many feeders. I do try to push frozen and prepared foods though. BTW JWM most large snake owners feed pre killed rabbits and chicken.

 

[Anonymous]

The first time I watched the video my sound was turned off and I thought it was interesting; but the commentary does kind of ruin it.

People have posted videos of anglers and such feeding and nobody seemed to mind too much. This had sort of a sleazy quality about it though, and the mantis' tank didn't look too nice...

 

[John_Brandt]

Crab vs. pipe


"This is a video taken in 6000 feet of water. An undersea robot is sawing a 3mm wide slit (1/10th of an inch) in a pipeline. The pressure inside the pipeline is 0 psig, while the pressure outside is 2700 psi, or 1.3 tons per square inch. Then a crab comes along...."


Safe 1.8MB mpg download: http://burningsmell.dyndns.org/crab/crabvspipe1.mpg

 

[Anonymous]

People keep animals for different reasons, and one of the reasons people keep predators is to watch them hunt and eat. I know I, and many on RDO have enjoyed the movies of my cuttles hunting and eating.
While I personally, don't enjoy the 'glee' expressed in the mantis video, I really can't get upset about it. Different strokes and all that.

As for the arrow crab, I think a question or two might be in order before the condemnation. And, why is the arrow crab that much worse than the crawfish? Cause its pretty?

I got grief for posting this pic by people making bunches of assumptions:

I think it is a mistake to assume that because some people very much enjoy watching their hunters hunt that they don't care about the animals they keep.

RR

PS
I think the chicken analogy brought up a couple of times in this thread is way off base. At the very least, a chicken and a crab are very different animals. Chickens are killed in horrible ways every day for US 'enjoyment' - the only difference is that it is mostly done behind closed doors and never spoken of.

 

[krullulon]

The mantis has to eat, no?

How many freshwater Oscar owners are there out there? Ever see one of them eat? How about large snake owners that feed rabbits?

C'mon. Dont be a bunch of wussies....

Cry about something else.

keep it respectful, please.

my problem isn't with the video per se -- it's with the sleaze-factor of watching it while two buffoons cackle in the background.

i've watched predation with interest lots of times, everything from big cats hunting and killing big game on TV to a variety of small-scale predation in my tank, and i have no problem. this is what happens in nature.

what i do have a problem with is the juvenile commentary and laughter accompanying that video -- it changes the entire tone of the content from "this is how nature works" to "this is something being killed for our amusement".

there is a fine line between enjoying the predatory behavior of the animals you keep and watching that activity for *amusement*, but it's not that fine. i think everyone can agree that the motivation behind cockfights and dog fights should be condemned -- there is no other reason for these events than watching other creatures die for amusement. i'd argue that the motivation behind the mantis video above is exactly the same as the motivation behind a dog fight, and therefore it should be condemned.

take that same video and remove the commentary, or at least replace it with responsible commentary and you have a completely different experience that doesn't wallow in the baser nature of predation. it's a subtle distinction, but i don't believe it's so subtle that rational people can't see the difference.

 

[Anonymous]

keep it respectful, please.

I agree, however, I think you destroy that sentiment with your next sentence:

my problem isn't with the video per se -- it's with the sleaze-factor of watching it while two buffoons cackle in the background.

If you are going to make a plea for civility, I think you should be civil too.

there is a fine line between enjoying the predatory behavior of the animals you keep and watching that activity for *amusement*, but it's not that fine. i think everyone can agree that the motivation behind cockfights and dog fights should be condemned -- there is no other reason for these events than watching other creatures die for amusement.

I think it may be a fine line for you, but not for everyone.

Given the state of factory farming in the US, I really can't get behind the idea that cockfights and dog fights should be condemned. People seem to get vocal when something they don't like is shown in the open, but remain strangely silent when much worse happens every day behind closed doors.

i'd argue that the motivation behind the mantis video above is exactly the same as the motivation behind a dog fight, and therefore it should be condemned.

Since I don't agree about the dog fight thing, I cant really support the same argument against the mantis video.
Part of the allure of keeping predators is the predation. I know I get a rush when watching the cuttles stalk and snatch prey. It feels a little weird to think that people should stifle and hide their enjoyment of predation just because some others find it distateful.

take that same video and remove the commentary, or at least replace it with responsible commentary and you have a completely different experience that doesn't wallow in the baser nature of predation. it's a subtle distinction, but i don't believe it's so subtle that rational people can't see the difference.

I agree, and I would not have included the audio if it were my video (and I would have made them shorter and turned off the lights in the room and closed the shades ). However, I am not sure that because you and I might find the audio on the mantis video 'distasteful' that we should argue that it should be removed. Different people keep animals for different reasons, and I don't think we should get out of shape due to expression of differences.

I find it odd that no one would be upset at all if we didn't hear the audio, but that the same intent for keeping the animal was there. Out of sight out of mind is a strange way to make determinations regarding what is acceptable.

Again, I personally don't overly enjoy 'glee' regarding things being killed, but I don't think any of us should be taking a morally superior stance. It could easily be argued that keeping any animal in a glass box for our own amusement is cruel and should be condemned.

I think this is a great and interesting conversation and I urge us all to be civil, give others the benefit of the doubt when responding (in other words, ask questions before assuming things), and that we understand that different opinions on these issues is par for the course.


*** While I am a mod of the NRF, my statements in this forum carry no authority and are simply my own personal opinions.

 

[dizzy]

Sixty one pages of members on the grimreefer site. That video is prolly perfectly acceptable to that crowd. Honestly it didn't bother me. I feed a lot of ghost shrimp to my triggers and puffers. I think the video should be titled "Bevis and Butthead get an aquarium." :lol:

 

[jwm2k3]

I think the video is great. I have never seen a Mantis hunt. Yes, the guy giggling is a geek, is that you chock?, but please...if you dont like whats on TV or the radio, CHANGE THE CHANNEL. I wont be mad at you...I promise. Righty, well said.

 

[jwm2k3]

Sixty one pages of members on the grimreefer site. That video is prolly perfectly acceptable to that crowd. Honestly it didn't bother me. I feed a lot of ghost shrimp to my triggers and puffers. I think the video should be titled "Bevis and Butthead get an aquarium." :lol:

Now THAT is funny!