Tang Growth

[Anonymous]

Steve,
I'm not asleep, yet

. There yo go again with fish feelings

, I need sex they don't. Of course I must stay awake first

.
I think that the sex drive is programmed into them, however, in our limited space, I believe that the territory issue would take precedence. I have read that the Waikiki(sp?) Aquarium has bred tangs, so there is a least some idea somewhere of the "minimum" space requirements to keep the territoriality down and the reproduction as a priority.

Cruiser,
I don't know about the fish. Angels, except the Centropyge, would outgrow my tank in a couple of years, I think. I do plan on a 1000 gallon, 8' x 4' x 4', but it is a least 2 years out. (I need to sell my house because I couldn't get it in or out) That is one reason I am curious about growth rates and the effect of having these critters in too small of a tank and the health effects of doing that.
Shoot, I started this tank a few months ago, let the algea go so I could get some "start-up" pictures for newbies to let them have an idea what to expect. Sort of a progression thing. Now there are so many critters crawling in the algae, I don't want to remove it. There are hundreds of amphi, copepods, grammarus & mysis shrimp, baby snails, etc. I need to turn this thing into a refugium and get a real tank. Then I canhave tangs and angels.

 

[SPC]

Steve Nichols, you wouldn't believe what you can see crawling around in there after 11:00 at night

.

 

[Anonymous]

Somehow I doubt I can stay up that late

. I have to get up at 5:30 to go to work. The lights go out at 9:30, and the red flashlight does come out on weekends. The life is incredible. I still want to wait a month or two before adding anything to give the sand a chance to get going good. It sure is hard though.

 

[Mickes]

I wish I could see fully what this thread is doing and where it is heading…it must be interesting.. but internet here in Kuwait is sporadic and fragmented at best and having a hard time getting all of the postings. I just hope this slows down some of the harsh flaming about tank size everytime a new Tang thread is started.

 

[marinelife]

So now are we also saying that keeping mandarins is bad too. If there is enough food, what is wrong with them. I have a male and femal in with the tang and all are doing great, lots of food for all three.

 

[SPC]

Marinelife, that last question did it for me on this thread, its been interesting reading. Thanks to those who participated in a mature manner, I know I learned more about Tangs, I wish I could say I learned something new about Human nature.
Steve

 

[marinelife]

SPC, I do not understand, I was reading the thread and saw a few people talking about mandarins, I was just wonder what the bad thought on them was,

 

[6_line]

It's really kind of ironic how some of the most prolific fish available in the LFS are tangs and Mandarins.
And, apparently and obviously, they both have requirements beyond the scope of your average marine fishkeeping novice.
I have no stats, but I'd suspect the most common starter tank for a saltwater setup is a 55 or even smaller. Now that's a huge tank for someone without a plethora of fishkeeping experience. And a 55 has been quoted as being too small for a Tang. I can somewhat agree with that issue because I had a yellow in a 55. Without a ton of rockwork, I imagine a FOWLR setup could handle a yellow tang, but I'm not recommending it.
The other fish, the Mandarin, are relatively cheap and often called mistakingly thought of as hardy fish--but we all know their feeding requirements and their recommendations and they are beyond the scope of the novice aquarist. However, they are both commonly available.
But on the topic of reproduction, the drive for act of reproducing is stronger and more prevelent in animals (fish, etc--but some guys may dispute this

)but I'd imagine if the constituents aren't present (male and female) I'd suspect this desire/drive would be non-existent. I'm not sure of this theory because I don't dwell ion the minds of these creatures....

 

[marinelife]

Thanks for the reply 6_line, I do completely understand the mandarin thing, I have myself told the LFS that you need los of rock and a health mature system. My mandarins were added to a mature and health system and have mated a few times. No baby so far. I just wondered was the only reason I asked, did not mean to upset to many people.

 

[naesco]

Marielife I am totally with SPC but let me clarifiy it for you please, with the hope that you understand (not a flame).
There are those of us on the board who are concerned about reefs and fish. We are concerned about the fact that difficult to keep fish like mandarins, some tangs (clown),cleaner wrasse and Moorish Idols are enticingly available to unsuspecting new reefers unaware of the difficulty in keeping these fish (and some corals). Thoughtless comments about how one has one and has one for years with no problem without clarifying the known difficulties is IMO negligence. Newbies will buy based on what they read here.
Case in point the recent Moorish Idol post of yesterday. (read it please and than as a newbie do a search undr Moorish Idol)
Its great that you have success but you owe it to all the members of this Board to caveat your remarks with 'this is a difficult fish' or 'large tanks required' or whatever you wish.
Your mandarin comment unintended or not is hurtful and a slap in the face to those of us who in our opinion see their role to help newbies avoid problems and stop LFS from selling fish like mandarins which will die in someones tank in a month.
Thank you (Thank you means thank you nothing else)

 

[Anonymous]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by marinelife:
<STRONG>SPC, I do not understand, I was reading the thread and saw a few people talking about mandarins, I was just wonder what the bad thought on them was,</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Marinelife I had mentioned both fish in a tongue in cheek manner because everytime you see a post about Tangs and Mandarins with very many posts it is a good bet it is not a very positive post.

I have flamed someone in retaliation after feeling someone had just hit well below the belt. I hope I have moved past that type of knee jerk reaction now.

I am amazed often that some people who seem to be knowledgeable about tangs resort to the inflamitory attacks and gross exageration of fact instead of taking the time to pass on useable knowledge about both types of fish.

We can present someone with all the knowledge on the subject but in the end, they still must make a decision. Hell most of the time we have made a decision and post for more information to help along with the decision already made or some self actualization. I very much respect those who take the time to try to offer a well thought out answer to some of these inflamitory and volitale subjects. The gross exagerations and flaming for the sole purpose of trying to alienate someone (again I stand not unscathed myself) just makes it to where a lot of people will not even click on these subjects anymore. Train wrecks start losing thier amusing qualities after a while.

 

[marinelife]

Thanks for the replies back, I with many here I am concerned about reefs and fish. There will always be debate about fish and which are good to keep and which ones are not. Some of us believe that fish can be kept while others will say no way. I feel this will go on forever. Different opinions are part of the world and will always be around. Just because I feel I can keep a tang/mandarin in my tank does not mean I tell everyone that they can. It is all in how you read and take what is written here, some of take away from here a different meaning than others. As said here reading and understanding is 100% the key to having a good tank. I know that some things I have written have been taken a way I did not want or think they would but that is a part of life. I am glad to come here and see many people with different views and opions, I know not all will agree with my thinking but I also know that alot will. For those that do not, I am sorry if what I believe is not what you believe. I do want to say that I think for the most part this thread has been handled nicely and not to much bad has been said, for that I thank everyone. It is great to see that poeple with different opinions can chat and not get into fights over there own views. I try to help people when I can and I think that part of that is to tell them what you have and how you have kept them. I do not believe in labeling a fish as to hard or needs a large tank right from the beginning, If givin the right conditions no fish is hard, we as people and reefers just have to read read and read to understand all we can about whatever fish we get or want to get. Hope all understand what I am trying to say here. Thanks

 

[Cruiser]

SteveNichols
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>I'm not asleep, yet . There yo go again with fish feelings , I need sex they don't. Of course I must stay awake first .
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL

Yes, they bred the yellow tang in the outdoor reef tanks. Tank subjected to natural sunlight, high nutrition algae, open space and can't remember if it is an open system to the sea......creates a great environment to spawn..........

Yes and no, depending upon the species of angel. Majority of the angel fish (and tangs) have a fairly rapid growth phase to sub-adult, but, then the growth pattern dramatically slows down. There are quite a few choices of medium sized angels that will take a few years to outgrow a 100gallon tank. You could consider Navarchus,Blueface,flagfin,asfur or emperor especially if purchased under 2"tl.

There are other choices but they are a bit more delicate. After the angel / tang is grown for those few years they will look really nice in the 1,000 gallon tank

The tank sounds like it is perfect for a small angel or tang

! One small tang or angel or both will not decimate your tank, still allowing plenty of food for the amphi, copepod, etc. With that rich of an environment you really wouldn't have to feed the tank that often!. Nothing wrong with waiting a couple of more months for the tank to stablize, before you add any fish / inverts, which alone is a tough decision

!

This topic has been great and gone off in different tangents with opinions, and as humans we are very passionate about our concerns associated with aquarium care......I will leave it at that,
back to lurk mode.

Joe

 

[Anonymous]

MarineLife,
As you can see, there are many "delicate' subjects when you step in with us fanatics

. And yes, most of us are fanatics. We love the animals we are keeping very much. We all feel the pain of those that express the loss of one of our pets. There are still many creatures that are little understood. There are also many that require a very specific diet. Some of us fanatics go to the lunatic fringe, eh Fishaholic

. There has been some very good discussion in this thread and I thank you for starting it. I hope you learned as much about us as we did about each other and the critters we keep.

 

[SPC]

GL, look how many posts he has, he is a TROLL, dont waste your time.
Steve

 

[jethro]

After reading this thread, my guilt has forced me to take more drastic measures at finding a new home for my Yellow Tang who has been living quite peacefully in my 40 gallon tank for over a year.

Seaworld of Ohio's director has read this thread and has agreed to replace Shamu and the rest of the killer whales with my Yellow Tang.

My Tang will be a bit confined in Shamu's pool, as it too is not as big as the ocean but he should do much better there.

The agreement was made providing that Seaworld will not add any other fish to this pool. The Tang should have the entire pool to himself to ensure that he is not stressed and lives the best possible life we can give him.

This will take a few months to coordinate but they are already planning for some Tang shows next summer.

By the way, Shamu was never cramped at Seaworld. Was he? I mean, haven't they provided him with the perfect environment and met all of his requirements?

[ July 24, 2001: Message edited by: jethro ]

 

[Anonymous]

Steve,
I'm so old I was already asleep

. I guess some people have a hard time conversing about controversial subjects. I still don't know about a tang in my tank, a whole day has passed and my tank is still 100 gal.

1. Most of the "difficult" tangs I see here are 4-5" and in the $90 range. Most of the angels are 1-2" and in the $75 range. Here the price is high for both but I would be better off putting and angel in my reef

than a tang. I would tend to agree that "most" people buy based on price rather than their knowledge or ability

. I also think that "most" of the people here and on other boards want to do the best they can for the animals in their care.

2. Many times the purchase, some by "experienced" reefers, is done on impulse without research (read I have done this). The individual is then "stuck" trying to do the best they can. It is difficult to impossible to get a fish out of an established reef. There are also those that just want "eye candy" and care nothing for the life they have just taken charge of. It is this type that should truly arouse our anger, not the individual that is doing what they think right and best, and not doing a bad job either.

3. Is this statement true? Where do you get your information? Boy do I need to get some fish books!! Is there much information out there regarding growth rates?

4.Agreed, I could probably kepp 10-12 happy

.

 

[chris1]

SPC,

Nope, not trolling. Just found this board. I have been on Aqualink and Reef Central for years. Just had a friend tell me about this board. I mainly post on those 2 but read several. This thread just sparked my fancy I guess.

c

 

[jethro]

Not to mention those who put Killer Whales in swimming pools and then name the place Seaworld and sell tickets.

 

[chris1]

Green Lantern,

You wrote:

"Chris you make good points except that two of the tangs you keep, especially when housed together, are aggressive. This aggression is magnified in our glass boxes. They don't lose their instinct to protect their territory,
if anything it increases."

I guess the question here would be what causes the territorialism, and the aggession in the wild? My thoughts are that the same kind of driving factors as what drive migration are at work here. I think the 2 main things that cause the the aggression would be mating, and protecting a food source. If the fish do not have a mate, and have a plentiful food source that they do not have to protect, will they still be as aggressive?

I agree that with any fish, there could be conflicting (for lack of better terms) personalities. But that can happen with any fish. You can throw a clown in with a tang and have them go at it, etc.

Just throwing out some possibilities.

As I said, I have had my Purple and Yellow together for 3+ years. And my Hippo with them for goingon 2 years. All 3 of these fish school together. Anytime you look in the tank, you will always see the yellow and the purple together. Most of the time you will see the hippo with them as well. The only time there is ever aggression is occasionally during feeding you might see one slash at the other if he gets too close to the others food. Very similar to the way you might see a dog snap at another if it tries to get his food. However there is plenty of food to go around, so it never goes beyond that.

c