Ich + something else?

[KathyC]

It's either be velvet or ich with excess mucus from the fish. Either way you need to treat it with copper.

You also need to be very careful as not only are these fish butterfly fish but unless they've grow a lot, from the ones that were collected, they're very small and probably wouldn't take to good to the copper or other medicine.

I agree for the most part but if the fish do live through the copper treatment, I'd still prefer to see the addition of an antibacterial as it won't stress them more than the copper alone will and it can be safely and possibly effectively used with the copper.

Jon - are you going to try and find the Cupramine? Don't forget a test kit!. If you choose to add the antibacterial, I'd use Maracyn (for Saltwater). You're going to need ton of both if you are going to treat in your larger tank...

 

[jhale]

I have a bottle of cuprumine. I was going to look at an antibacterial made by seachem as they have tested their products together and can advise the best treatment.

 

[gcfishreef]

amloodinium.....i think thats how you spell it....the best thing to do if their not in a reef or with inverts is hypo salinity....this is the best thing to do instead of medicating bc butterflys dont take copper to well. Raise the temp to about 80 and drop the salinity to about .016 that should take care of it. Also in the past ive used garlic extract or newlife spectrum thera A and it speeded up the process while doing hypo.. hope everything gets better

 

[jhale]

i've gone back and forth deciding over using meds or hypo for the ich. i've read many cases that hypo has not always worked. it's still on the table though.

 

[gcfishreef]

hypo only works if you raise the temp. raising the temp pushes the bacteria to its free floating stage then the low salinity makes em burst lol. Not a very technical answer but i always have a hard time explaining things lol. But like a said i personally hate using any chemicals especially on butterflies so if i was you it doesnt hurt to try

 

[marrone]

Hyposalinity doesn't work for Amyloodinium ocellatum(Marine Velvet) only Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans). Also with Hypo you need to get down to 1.007-.008 for it to be effective.

 

[gcfishreef]

worked for me lol just did it a week ago on my saddlebacks

 

[marrone]

hypo only works if you raise the temp. raising the temp pushes the bacteria to its free floating stage then the low salinity makes em burst lol. Not a very technical answer but i always have a hard time explaining things lol. But like a said i personally hate using any chemicals especially on butterflies so if i was you it doesnt hurt to try

Raising the temp have nothing to do with Hypo working or not. If anything you need to be careful when you raise the temp as the fish metabolic rate will increase and use more oxygen.

 

[gcfishreef]

to each his own i guess what works for some sounds crazy to others lol.....

 

[marrone]

worked for me lol just did it a week ago on my saddlebacks

Then it didn't work because of Hypo, as if you were at 1.016 you wouldn't have been at the correct level to do Hypo. Also it take a lot longer to get rid of ich than just 1 week.

 

[marrone]

i've gone back and forth deciding over using meds or hypo for the ich. i've read many cases that hypo has not always worked. it's still on the table though.

Hypo doesn't always work as some strains of ich can survive the change in SG, just as some strains can also survive copper, even at high levels. Also you need to make sure that you have ich in the first place for it to work.

 

[gcfishreef]

i wrote my thesis on fish pathology to graduate from college after 4 years like i said what works for some sounds crazy to others....

 

[marrone]

I agree for the most part but if the fish do live through the copper treatment, I'd still prefer to see the addition of an antibacterial as it won't stress them more than the copper alone will and it can be safely and possibly effectively used with the copper.

Jon - are you going to try and find the Cupramine? Don't forget a test kit!. If you choose to add the antibacterial, I'd use Maracyn (for Saltwater). You're going to need ton of both if you are going to treat in your larger tank...

kathy I agree about the antibacterial but I would treat with the copper first and see if the fish look better right away.

 

[gcfishreef]

things are always hard to believe when not seen through the eyes of the person performing said action

 

[regal]

.. Also with Hypo you need to get down to 1.007-.008 for it to be effective.

A few years ago, I had to treat a few tangs for ich (powder brown, powder blue and sailfin tangs in different occasions), Marrone is right. You have to go down to that level for it to be effective. I treated them with hypo alone. You have to treat them for at least 4 weeks after you don't see any more white spots. Raising the temp only speeds up the life cycle of the ich. Other words, the ichs will fall off the fish quicker but also multiple faster and will re-infect the fish. There are many articles regarding ich if you do a search. FWIW, when I put the powder brown back in the tank after treatment, he got ich again. Same thing with the PBT. So I gave up and just let them be. I did install a UV but I don't know whether it helps to cure the ich since my PBT still gets them every year when there is a wide fluctuation of temp. It might help to keep the ich load down without totally eliminated them.

 

[NYPDFrogman]

Jon,

I collected my share of those butterflys and every single one developed a bad case of ich!

lowering the salt will stress them more
survival rate are very low with those fish they are so stressed to start with!

I would Q/T them treat the ich I'm sure yopu will see an improvment
make sure they keep eating garlic helps!
The longest I kept on of those alive was about 18 months

 

[Domboski]

If you go the treatment route Jon, I'd probably start with half the recomended dose and see how they react. Marrone has a good point about their size. I think half the recommended dose for most treatments is effective and commonly recommended for scaleless fish which tend to be the most sensitive to treatment. These butterfly's have been infected for a while and are probably in an advanced weakened state.

 

[jhale]

Regal and Frank, thanks for the input.
Dom they really do not seem weak at all, but I was planning on starting with a low level of meds and working up from there.

 

[Domboski]

Cool. The only reason I suggested they may be weak is usually by the time you see external signs of a bacterial infection (if in fact that is one of the factors involved) they are in pretty bad shape and chances of survival are slim.

 

[KathyC]

Copper is only effective against ich at the proper dosing level
If the type of fish is too sensitive to copper, then another method, such as hypo would need to be employed but that carries it own's consequences as Frank pointed out.