Aquarium Ick!! Need Help or Suggestion!

[kimoyo]

Paul, the 24G Aquapod, Lights & skimmer was not new!

Oh so everything you switched over to (connected to the system) in the upgrade had been used for awhile. If the clowns had ich and were sick when they came to the system, even after they die, I would think it would take a little time for the other fish to catch it and die because of the ich cycle. Thats why when all the fish suddenly die at once, I first think of parameters being out of wack (which you said they weren't) or toxins being introduced into the tank.

 

[Wolverine57]

Johnny, no worries - I am not trying to skirt blame either - so, we're on the same page - I am just bummed you lost them.

I didn't know you were using the new sand you bought to restart the tank - I thought you were going to use the new stuff for something else - definitely should have waited at least a week if you could have and I would have recommended away from it if you were putting the new sand in it - we were rushing around to get things done when you were here - had I known, I definitely would have said wait.

We'll try to help out with the next set (or whatever you buy) to offset the cost, but they definitely should not have gone in same day with new sand/rebuilding the system after the drill -

House

Jim...Jim! That was the first thing I ask you, should I wait? The sand was for the tank you was drilling, the only tank I have. You said, it should be ok to put the new fish! I told you, I'll pay you now to hold them for a couple of weeks, if its to soon. There is no next set, to offset...sorry! I don't have $75 to throw away!

 

[KathyC]

To all who are following along on this thread...

Jim brought up an interesting point that I forgot I knew..and that is in regard to Brooklynella.

Brooklynella IS a form of Maine Ich but is not the same as what most folks refer to as Ich.
Brooklynella is also know as Clownfish Disease and it is a much more potent (and faster killing ich) than the usual ich we see.

It is also treated differently as apparently hypo does NOT work on Brooklynella but formalin is used instead.
It's causes are not as clear cut as Marine Ich (I'll leave out all the Latin names for ich for now)though stress usually seems to play a part.
The other main difference that I can't saay I see reported here is that there is usually a mucus film that develops on the fish.

I am attaching some links for treatment here for anyone following this post that has yet to run into this disease.

I am also going to be asking that we put up a couple of 'stickys' for treatment of Ich and Brooklynella as lately we've had a slew of these questions.

I'm sorry for those of you that have lost fish due to these illnesses.

This is the most complete description of treatment that gives very good advice. Please read it carefully & fully
http://home2.pacific.net.ph/~sweetyummy42/brookynella.html

Here is a second link:
http://www.fishvet.com/Brooklynella.htm

Did not want this important info getting lost at the bottom of a page since this disease kills so quickly.

 

[kimoyo]

Jim...Jim! That was the first thing I ask you, should I wait? The sand was for the tank you was drilling, the only tank I have. You said, it should be ok to put the new fish! I told you, I'll pay you now to hold them for a couple of weeks, if its to soon. There is no next set, to offset...sorry! I don't have $75 to throw away!

Nah, nah, nah. If it was the sand your inverts would be dead also because the cause would have been a mini-cycle. But since you said you even checked your levels and your inverts are still good, that shouldn't be the case. What type of sand was it? I still think toxins is your best bet since all/only the fish died at the same time.

Was there anything else at all other than the sand that was new to your upgrade?

 

[juan319]

Just like wolverine57 I trusted the seller with the fishes unfortunetly, I am out of $75.00, out of two misbar perculas and a tank with ick that today I saw a total of 5 fishes in the tank with ick.

 

[Wolverine57]

Just like wolverine57 I trusted the seller with the fishes unfortunetly, I am out of $75.00, out of two misbar perculas and a tank with ick that today I saw a total of 5 fishes in the tank with ick.

Juan, sorry to hear that!

 

[marrone]

Regardless of who the sellers is you should always QT your fish. Even if the seller tell you had has QT the fish and it's fine you still shouldn't take a chance. The fish may have something and you're taking a chance that you could lose not only the fish you just brought but everything in your main tank.

 

[Wolverine57]

Regardless of who the sellers is you should always QT your fish. Even if the seller tell you had has QT the fish and it's fine you still shouldn't take a chance. The fish may have something and you're taking a chance that you could lose not only the fish you just brought but everything in your main tank.

I admit I have never QT any live stock purchases for 1 1/2 since I've gotten into this hobby. Actually, all fish I've purchase were from LFS....did well. Anyway, appreciate your advice on the QT!

 

[House of Laughter]

Johnny, the sand is not the issue - it's the stress -

Also, saying taking care of you on he next pair doesn't leave you paying $75 - it leaves you being taken care of. Maybe that's not clear enough - Juan same goes for you -

something is seriously wrong - I just went downstairs to take these pictures - it has to be the transport or systems they are going into - after speaking to other people who bought this batch - the others are doing well, one has a small spot and likely to get over it -

There are 11 clowns still in this system - the single misbar is alone because it's partner was sent over to nikkibabee with a true perc match.

House

 

[kimoyo]

Something really smelled fishy from the beginning of this thread.

What I don't understand is that there is no way if you put a fish with ick in a tank with other fish, that all the fish will die from ich at the same time a few days later, that is not how ick works! Especially when one fish is a clown and the other is a blenny and there is a chance it was brook. Even pecan2phat's radioactive ich, which laid waste to many of fish, couldn't do this. What fish disease have you guys heard of that works that fast and kills fish off that quickly? And how could the fish in the original tank be fine?

Then talk about the sand starts, what type of cycle (ammonia spike) would only kill fish but not corals or inverts. It just doesn't add up. If all your fish suddenly die overnight the first thing most people look at is if something, some residue or some chemical, was added to the tank.

I straight forwardly ask Johnny / Wolverine if he had any new equipment and he made it seem like he didn't. So I searched and found he already has an upgrade thread and he just added a new sump, new filter sock and reactors, which was surprising to me.

Now I have a few questions for you Johnny. What solvents/adhesives were used in the construction of your new sump and on what type of material, were any cleaning solutions used, how soon after the tank was made did your tank water touch it? Many of the solvents used in constructing a tank can kill fish and will still be "wet" well after the gluing process. Its one of the reasons companies recommend waiting or will hold the tank for a week or so. As far as residues, some companies will soak the tank in water before it goes out. Did you wash the filter sock before putting on the tank? Did you use a washing machine to do so?

Looking at your two thread it seems that a day passed after your upgrade that your fish started dying. It befuddles me how you wouldn't think, not only did my clown die, my blenny did also, I just added a bunch of new things to the tank maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[Wolverine57]

Something really smelled fishy from the beginning of this thread.

What I don't understand is that there is no way if you put a fish with ick in a tank with other fish, that all the fish will die from ich at the same time a few days later, that is not how ick works! Especially when one fish is a clown and the other is a blenny and there is a chance it was brook. Even pecan2phat's radioactive ich, which laid waste to many of fish, couldn't do this. What fish disease have you guys heard of that works that fast and kills fish off that quickly? And how could the fish in the original tank be fine?

Then talk about the sand starts, what type of cycle (ammonia spike) would only kill fish but not corals or inverts. It just doesn't add up. If all your fish suddenly die overnight the first thing most people look at is if something, some residue or some chemical, was added to the tank.

I straight forwardly ask Johnny / Wolverine if he had any new equipment and he made it seem like he didn't. So I searched and found he already has an upgrade thread and he just added a new sump, new filter sock and reactors, which was surprising to me.

Now I have a few questions for you Johnny. What solvents/adhesives were used in the construction of your new sump and on what type of material, were any cleaning solutions used, how soon after the tank was made did your tank water touch it? Many of the solvents used in constructing a tank can kill fish and will still be "wet" well after the gluing process. Its one of the reasons companies recommend waiting or will hold the tank for a week or so. As far as residues, some companies will soak the tank in water before it goes out. Did you wash the filter sock before putting on the tank? Did you use a washing machine to do so?

Looking at your two thread it seems that a day passed after your upgrade that your fish started dying. It befuddles me how you wouldn't think, not only did my clown die, my blenny did also, I just added a bunch of new things to the tank maybe that has something to do with it.

Paul, first don't presume! Everything was washed first including the filter sock! Dod not had the phosban reactor connected until yesterday. The sump was made days before using. First looked my clowns with with little spots...the blenny was ok. You seem to have all the answer!

 

[kimoyo]

Paul, first don't presume! Everything was washed first including the filter sock! Dod not had the phosban reactor connected until yesterday. The sump was made days before using. First looked my clowns with with little spots...the blenny was ok. You seem to have all the answer!

My bad, I made an A$$ out of U and ME. I will now humbly withdraw from this conversation. I'm sorry for your fish wolverine.















whats that I smell?

 

[manyfish]

at the pet shop did you see the pair clown eat .If they did you mite shock them on the way home, spike of ammonia in the bag. if buying fish at petshop ask for more water in the bag so if they crap the water in bag still have low level of ammonia before you get home.

 

[juan319]

Kimoyo, maybe you are very knowledgeable in your area, but I think you should read all the information in the forum and not just jump in and start giving out your opinion, also you need to be a little more simpathetic someone who I belive is sad because the lost of his fishes.

 

[Vic8361]

Hi Johnny,
Hey when you drilled the tank and added the sand did you have to take all of the rocks out and then rearange every thing?

Vic

 

[kimoyo]

Kimoyo, maybe you are very knowledgeable in your area, but I think you should read all the information in the forum and not just jump in and start giving out your opinion, also you need to be a little more simpathetic someone who I belive is sad because the lost of his fishes.

Nah, I'm just a hobbyist who has been in this hobby and on this website for a little while and has had fish with ich and gone thru cycles. Anyone who has actually had ich in their tank can tell you that it doesn't kill quick or all the fish at the same time (including a fish that was supposed to be exposed for only a few days), its like a cancer, it eats away at the fish. That's why I think the most reasonable post was Jaymo's. The first thing that caught my attention was that these were ORA fish, not wild caught, and ORA has a distinct reputation of selling tank raised clowns. I'm not sure what the motives of this thread were and there were some knowledgeable people commenting here and maybe they were trying to be sympathetic but when the poster starts going after vendors and not willing to answer some simple questions or look at other reasonable possibilities I lose my sympathy.

The more that was said the more questions came up. When my salinity got too high some of my fish would get spots and when I corrected it they would go away. Even though it could have been confused with ich I didn't think it was. The fish got stressed and had a reaction to the stressor. If you change your sump and then within 24 hours the fish start showing signs of stress and then all your fish are dead within 48 hours you wouldn't think maybe something happened during the changeover? The reason I suspected this is Johnny pm'd about a sump last week which I don't do anymore. But looking at his time line, there is a reason professional shops will wait 1 or 2 weeks before they hand over a tank or ship and there is a reason they use domestic cast and not stuff from Mexico. I have my feelings on what happened in Johnny's case which contradict blaming ORA or HOF but hey what do I know.

Juan as far as your situation I can't comment because you haven't said anything other than my fish had ich.

 

[Wolverine57]

Nah, I'm just a hobbyist who has been in this hobby and on this website for a little while and has had fish with ich and gone thru cycles. Anyone who has actually had ich in their tank can tell you that it doesn't kill quick or all the fish at the same time (including a fish that was supposed to be exposed for only a few days), its like a cancer, it eats away at the fish. That's why I think the most reasonable post was Jaymo's. The first thing that caught my attention was that these were ORA fish, not wild caught, and ORA has a distinct reputation of selling tank raised clowns. I'm not sure what the motives of this thread were and there were some knowledgeable people commenting here and maybe they were trying to be sympathetic but when the poster starts going after vendors and not willing to answer some simple questions or look at other reasonable possibilities I lose my sympathy.

The more that was said the more questions came up. When my salinity got too high some of my fish would get spots and when I corrected it they would go away. Even though it could have been confused with ich I didn't think it was. The fish got stressed and had a reaction to the stressor. If you change your sump and then within 24 hours the fish start showing signs of stress and then all your fish are dead within 48 hours you wouldn't think maybe something happened during the changeover? The reason I suspected this is Johnny pm'd about a sump last week which I don't do anymore. But looking at his time line, there is a reason professional shops will wait 1 or 2 weeks before they hand over a tank or ship and there is a reason they use domestic cast and not stuff from Mexico. I have my feelings on what happened in Johnny's case which contradict blaming ORA or HOF but hey what do I know.

Juan as far as your situation I can't comment because you haven't said anything other than my fish had ich.

Hey Paul!! Your exhausting me with your bull-$$$$ Where you made a comment that you made a A$$ out of both, in reality speak for yourself and becareful....Please read the tiltle. Then look what I wrote first...I was not attacking HOF! I think you wanted to make it bigger than it seem with your mambo bull$$$$. So your conclusion is the sump that cause the problem!! Because, I did not buy the sump from you and because I would not frag an item I was selling for $35, that you just wanted a piece for $10.

With prices that you charge for your custom work, your should not chisel me for $10...period! I went with Custom King, why? Because, I have bought previous sumps made by Jeff (Custom King) and and never had a problem.

I think at this point, you should backoff and stay away from this thread! Its over, and I have learned much from several members here.

 

[caad3]

Sorry about your loss John. I have had some problems in the past with my false black perculas. Everytime I would get a pair they would either die or pick up some sort of crap ick/brook. Here is what I have learned, QT the clowns now matter what. I have had much better success with Formalin dips, when I notice the clowns having some slime breakdown or heavy breathing. Adding a UV light in the QT tank and main if necessary. QT should last minimum four weeks. Food should be soaked with Garlic. I also add Selcon. Good luck.

James

 

[Wolverine57]

Sorry about your loss John. I have had some problems in the past with my false black perculas. Everytime I would get a pair they would either die or pick up some sort of crap ick/brook. Here is what I have learned, QT the clowns now matter what. I have had much better success with Formalin dips, when I notice the clowns having some slime breakdown or heavy breathing. Adding a UV light in the QT tank and main if necessary. QT should last minimum four weeks. Food should be soaked with Garlic. I also add Selcon. Good luck.

James

James, I appreciate your advice and concern! Best advice I've heard there this entire thread! I need to setup a QT, in the event I plan to buy a pair of perculas...will be awhile.

Thanks again!

 

[kimoyo]

Hey Paul!! Your exhausting me with your bull-$$$$ Where you made a comment that you made a A$$ out of both, in reality speak for yourself and becareful....Please read the tiltle. Then look what I wrote first...I was not attacking HOF! I think you wanted to make it bigger than it seem with your mambo bull$$$$. So your conclusion is the sump that cause the problem!! Because, I did not buy the sump from you and because I would not frag an item I was selling for $35, that you just wanted a piece for $10.

With prices that you charge for your custom work, your should not chisel me for $10...period! I went with Custom King, why? Because, I have bought previous sumps made by Jeff (Custom King) and and never had a problem.

I think at this point, you should backoff and stay away from this thread! Its over, and I have learned much from several members here.

Let me get straight to the point since you took it there and I'm not into the bitching. Here's the conversation via pm that Johnny and I had,some of the conversation the day he post his upgrade.

Hey Johnny,

Its not that its a small job, just that my shop got broken into last week. They either ruined or stole about 12k worth of tools along with a bunch of copper piping. Whether they knew what was happening or not I don't know but they let a whole bunch of water leak on cast iron tools. So at this point I can't make anything unfortunately.

If I was doing you sump, I would make it 20"*14"*16" and out of 1/2" cyro cast acrylic. I know a lot of other people would use 1/4" but I build my stuff to last. Also, I edge all my work which is where a major difference can be seen along with my bubble free seams. Depending on your baffling I would charge $200 base and it would be raised up to $225-$250 depending on the baffling. Yes 1/4" would be cheaper but only around $50 bucks. If your buying real good acrylic my costs are pretty cheap already. HTH.

Paul

Hey Johnny,

I'm not sure if I'm building or not right now, I should know tomorrow/Thursday. I can give you a quote regardless so you can get an idea of how much people should be charging you if you want.

Good Morning & Happy New Year!

Just trying to get an idea on a round-about price for a sump!
Here is some information hopefully to give you an idea what I need.

I have a 24G Aquapod drilled, the return pump is an eheim 1048 Dimensions: 5.8"L x 3"W x 4.7"H

I Have a Tunze Nano DOC Protein Skimmer 9002
? Dimensions: 4.9" L x 2.1" W x 13.3" H
? Immersion depth: approximately 7" to 8.6"
Someone is building me a stand. As of last night all he needs to do is paint it. He said the inside measurements are: 21 x 15.25

I would like to put a filter sock holder
I hope this information will help to give you an idea of what would you charge me for making me a sump. I heard from others that your work is primo, just my concern is price...being this is a small sump.
Appreciate your reply.
Johnny

Appreciate if you can give me a quotation, whether or not you do not have the time. I understand this is not a big job. Thank you

Thanks for the quotation...too rich for me.

I'm tired of seeing people attacking vendors for no reason making up phantom stories. And I have no sympathy for someone when they show no sympathy for others. Now this is directed to Johnny and CK. I would appreciate it if you bi$ch a$$es don't have your friends contact me anymore. This is the second time this happened. I am not in competition with you, I could care less if you sell your work here because I am not selling anything. But if I see a bunch of stuff being made of cheap crappy chemcast and practices that lead to fish wipe outs in a community I've been apart for 3 years I will speak up. I'm not going to stop posting on MR because suddenly you show up. I will definitely be at the next frag swap and you can look for my name tag and talk to me face to face. Until then I will try to be as careful as I can and leave it like this, both of you can **** ** ****. Have a nice day.