Qt??? with pics

[scumonkey]

Copper Power

Never heard of it....is it safe to use with eels?

 

[Awibrandy]

If you're going to take all the fish out of the main tank, then all you need to do is raise the temp to 81-82 and wait 8 weeks and the tank should be free of ich. There isn't a need to treat it as there wouldn't be any hosts for the ich to attach to.

As for the other fish, you'll need to treat them for ich. I would use Copper Power, as you can treat at higher levels, than regular copper, and it's doesn't hurt the fish. Also get a good test kit, so you'll have the correct level of correct in the tank.

OK guys! This is NOT the reef. I am talking about the FOWLR which is currently housing a Blue Throat Trigger, Dog Face Puffer, Marine Betta, Banana Eel, and temporary guest 2 cinnamon clowns, 2 blue devil damsels, & 3 or 4 black damsels with forked tails rimbed on the inside with yellow.
Approximately 60 lbs of lr & 2" southdown sand. No corals, no inverts nothing.
Now can someone make it really clear to me why can't I treat these guys in the tank they are in? This tank will never see corals or inverts. This tank has had copper in it before.

You guys have no idea what a chore it is going to be to set them up in QT.
1st. I have to relocate the turtle(1IJack)to the 29 g.
2nd. I have to clean the 30 g(One Eye Jacks home), & move the Oscars to it.
3rd. I have to clean the 55 g, and set it up as a QT.
4th. After 2 months reverse the above steps.

Scumonkey, the PBT is to be the last into the tank after the lion.:biggrin: And the lion can't go in until the clowns & damsels are gone.

 

[marrone]

If you have treated the tank before with copper there isn't any reason you can't treat it now, especially if you don't plan on having any inverts or corals.

Just start to add copper and build it up slowly. Because of the LR and sand it's going to take more copper to reach the correct level. Make sure you get a good test kit and watch out for any stress from the fish. There maybe a slight bacteria died off but it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Awibrandy]

Thank you! Validation at it's greatest. Except that I would not have done it with out your blessing.:biglaugh:

And now another question. I am trully concerned about the eel. I found this product, and was wondering what you guys think. None of the fish I showing signs, I just want to be sure it is all gone.

Ich-Attack

Directions for Use: (in Fresh, Brackish, or Saltwater): Shake well before each use. Carbon should be removed from water filters during treatment.
For Diseases, Abrasions, and Wounds:
Add 1 teaspoonful (approx. 5 ml) of Ich-Attack for every 10 gallons (approx. 40 liters) of water. Repeat dosage daily for 1 week. For the treatment of Ich, continue the treatment for at least 3 days after the last indication (white spots) of the disease is observed. If the symptoms have not cleared up after a week, the daily treatment dose can be increased by 50 to 100% (1.5 to 2 teaspoonfuls) and continued for a longer period of time. Continue until the symptoms have disappeared, then make a 25% water change.
As a disease inhibitor and preventive:
Ich-Attack is recommended for use in aquariums, ponds, and quarantine tanks to help the fishes in resisting external disease outbreaks. Follow the instructions for Diseases, Abrasions and Wounds.
For netting, handling or adding new fish, amphibians, turtles and other aquatic reptiles: Add 1 teaspoonful (approx. 5 ml) of Ich-Attack for every 10 gallons (approx. 40 liters) of water. Repeat dosage daily, 3-7 days of treatment will usually be sufficient. Cold water conditions may require a longer treatment time. If the animal's condition appears to be less than satisfactory during this time, treat as recommended for severe infections. After the treatment period is over, make a 25% water change.

• Safe for fishes normally sensitive to medications including "scaleless" fishes such as loaches and catfishes, coral reef fishes and fry
• Will not harm eggs
• Will not harm plants or reef aquariums
• Can be used with amphibians and reptiles
• Does not stain aquarium decor, aquarium sealants or equipment
• Will not permanently discolor the water
• Ich-Attack can be used with all Kordon Water Conditioners such as NovAqua, AmQuel, and PolyAqua, all Kordon Water Clarifiers (TransClear and Sea Clear) and all AquaTru Water Quality Test Kits.

For interconnected multiple aquarium systems: Ich-Attack can be used in aquariums that are interconnected with a central filtering system and where one or more are aquariums are infected while the others are not. Ich-Attack will not harm the inhabitants of the non-infected aquariums. Active ingredients: 5% active ingredients (multiple natural herbals containing Naphthoquinon

 

[marrone]

I don't know about that product, never used it, but I don't like products that are for both fresh and saltwater. Ich in saltwater is different from Freshwater, and unless there is copper in it I'm not sure it will work. Also you can't measure the amount that you're treating, since some of it will be absorbed by the rocks and sand you wouldn't be sure if you're dosing the right amount.


I've used copper in tanks that had eels without any problems. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Awibrandy]

Cool. Thanks Marrone. I have the salifert copper test kit that I had used in the past. Just need to get new packets for it.

 

[scumonkey]

Be sure to make up as much RO/DI water as you can and, store it for any unexpected necessary water changes you might have to make!
Copper will suppress your bacteria levels and you can get some spikes
you wouldn't otherwise see!
I wouldn't use that product either!

 

[Awibrandy]

Thanks Onkey!

 

[Awibrandy]

Now it is time to decide on a medication, and once again I need your help. Which of the following does anyone here have experience with? I have used Sea Cure in the past.
Mike, the drsfostersmith.com don't carry Copper Power, and I have other stuff I need to order from them.

This disease preventive contains billions of "protector" bacteria that stop the activity of pathogens so they don't come back in 2nd or 3rd stages, killing your fish. Effective against Ich, closed fins, velvet, body fungus, hole-in-the-head, and vibrio, without chemicals or pesticides. Completely safe for all fish, corals, and aquatic plants. Add 2 teaspoons per 20 gallons first dose, then 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons every 2 weeks. 16 oz. treats 100 gallons for 33 weeks.

*Natural plant extracts and pepper formulation for marine ich*No copper or carcinogenic dyes ? safe with most invertebrates*Treats multiple stages of saltwater external parasites

Uses natural plant extracts and pepper to rid saltwater parasites without copper or carcinogenic dyes! Treats multiple stages, leaves no residual toxic metal, and is safe with most invertebrates. Use as a dip or 2 teaspoons per 25 gallons every other day. 16 oz treats 100 gallons for one full treatment. For saltwater aquariums with a protein skimmer or wet/dry filter.

Broad-spectrum treatment effective against marine ich and oodinium
*Convenient, all-in-one therapeutic treatment for saltwater aquarium fish*Powerful oxidizing action destroys disease-causing microorganisms*Safely and effectively treats bacterial, fungal, viral, and external parasitic fish disease

Easy-dissolve tablets treat bacterial, fungal, viral, and external parasitic disease in saltwater aquarium fish. Revolutionary non-antibiotic tablets rely on powerful oxidizing action to attack and destroy a wide range of disease-causing microorganisms. Treats infectious ailments such as ich, oodinium, fungus, milky or shedding slime, bacterial gill disease, mouth and fin rot, clamped or torn fins, and ulcers. Simply place tablets in floating dispenser to allow medication to dissolve and distribute evenly throughout the aquarium. Treat fish that display clinical signs of disease or new arrivals to prevent unwanted or unexpected infection. For saltwater aquariums. Use one tablet per 10 gallons of aquarium water for a treatment period of 5 consecutive days. Not suitable for invertebrates or newly set up aquariums.

*All-natural parasite treatment for fish and reef aquariums*Copper-free formula will not harm internal organs of fish*Safe for all aquarium inhabitants, including reef invertebratesStop Parasites' natural ingredients remove all types of parasites, including saltwater Ich. Completely safe for all fish, invertebrates, and corals and does not harm the fish's liver as does copper. This organic solution is 99% effective in fresh and saltwater aquariums. Stop Parasites works by first enhancing the slime coat on fish, which will remove all parasites. Then it uses another additive, which the parasites attach themselves to as a false host, and the parasites are then naturally removed through your protein skimmer or mechanical filtration. Another agent in the product works to speed up appetite and build the immune system. 8 oz treats 30 to 55 gallons and 16 oz treats 75 to 100 gallons fo a 5-day treatment period.

 

[Deanos]

Are you purposely avoiding copper-based treatments? Those seem to be cure-alls aimed at multiple diagnoses. If any of those treatments were as good as they advertised, they'd corner the Ich-fighting market.

 

[Awibrandy]

Are you purposely avoiding copper-based treatments? Those seem to be cure-alls aimed at multiple diagnoses. If any of those treatments were as good as they advertised, they'd corner the Ich-fighting market.

Kind of:happysad:. I don't want to see anything happen to the eel. It was my best friends favorite.
I guess I'll just have to go back to SeaCure. And pray for the best outcome.
Thanks Deano.

 

[marrone]

Coral Aquarium, on Roosevelt ave in LIC, sells Copper Power. It's better to use than SeaCure and much safer.

If you're worried about the eel you can setup a small hospital tank and treat the eel in there with Hypos, while you treat the other fish with Copper.

 

[Awibrandy]

Thanks for the info Mike. I wanted to treat all of them by hypo, but was told that the dog face puffer could not deal with 1.007 SG. Do you know if this is true?

 

[marrone]

I've never heard that, the only things that can't take the SG at 1.007 is corals, LR, inverts, Sharks and rays, though some Hermits can take it. Also don't do Copper and Hypo together, either one of the other.

 

[Awibrandy]

I've never heard that, the only things that can't take the SG at 1.007 is corals, LR, inverts, Sharks and rays, though some Hermits can take it. Also don't do Copper and Hypo together, either one of the other.

Thanks for all the help Mike. I'll do the Hypo. I'll start lowering it by 2 units per day until I get it down to 1.007 & temp @ 82.:wink1:

 

[scumonkey]

If you do decide to use copper (I would)....
I have it on good authority that this copper is SAFE for your eel!
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4743&N=2004+113016
Here are some additional facts for you to read...
http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Cupramine_faq.html

 

[Awibrandy]

Thank you Onkey!! I'm going to try the Hypo first. If I see any signs of ich, then I will use copper. To me medications are last resorts.:wink1:
Doing the Hypo for 2 months at least. Will let you know.
By the way, when are you coming out to see the tank & give me some advice on placements?

 

[KathyC]

I don't know about that product, never used it, but I don't like products that are for both fresh and saltwater. Ich in saltwater is different from Freshwater, and unless there is copper in it I'm not sure it will work. Also you can't measure the amount that you're treating, since some of it will be absorbed by the rocks and sand you wouldn't be sure if you're dosing the right amount.

Even though you have decided on the treatment you will be using for your fish Awilda, I would like to add the following information to this thread...

Regarding treatment with copper...yes, there is a difference in the ich parasite between fresh & salt water. In SW the parasite is Cryptocaryon Irritans and in FW it is Ichtylophthirius Multifillis..but they are BOTH treated almost identically.
The life cycle in the SW parasite lasts longer than the FW parasite.
FW fish respond very well to treatment with Formalin, Malachite Green (or a combination of the 2) and also to copper, or to raised temps and a darkened tank. FW fish cannot be treated with hyposalinity as it will kill them, they can only tolerate a SW dip at best.

Mike - I highlighted your quote because of the risk of adding copper to a FOWLR tank...Live rock, crushed coral, sand substrate will ALL adsorb copper, so it would be near impossible to keep a proper dosage level in the tank, so I would avoid this as a treatment method unless a QT were used and even then Awilda still has the issue of her eel.
ALL SW fish including eels CAN get ich, though many are not suitable hosts for it based on lack of scales or thicker than usual slime coats. The Trophonts (the 'salt' like cysts you can see on you fish when they have ich) do not multiply as well on scaleless or heavily slime coated fish and you simply may not see them due to their tiny size (because they are hardly multiplying), but they are there none the less. They will fall off the body of the fish faster since they are not in an ideal environment, but the ones in the gill tissue, which is where MOST of the damage that kills fish with ich is found, will still be there, so treatment is necessary for ALL fish in the tank.

I think the choice of hyposalinity is an excellent choice for your fish Awilda as long as you decrease the salinity slowly and after treatment, you raise it back to normal levels in an even SLOWER manner (your messing with the fishes kidneys here...). I know it is suggested to be 1.009 - 1.010 at 78-80 degrees for 14 days..past that point you are taking chances, so take another week after the 14 days to raise it back up. This is important due to the osmotic balance in SW fishes.

I also agree that products that claim to be the end all-be all for treating a myriad of diseases belong in the dumpster.

One last thing, I feel the use of an airline is always best when treating a fish that has almost any malady, especially one like this where gill tissue damage is likely.

...and...Garlic will NOT cure ich, never has, never will, it will however boost the immunity of your fish which is always helpful, and it just might remind you to call one of your Italian friends who you haven't spoken to in a while...lol

 

[marrone]

Mike - I highlighted your quote because of the risk of adding copper to a FOWLR tank...Live rock, crushed coral, sand substrate will ALL adsorb copper, so it would be near impossible to keep a proper dosage level in the tank, so I would avoid this as a treatment method unless a QT were used and even then Awilda still has the issue of her eel.

This isn't true, even though the LR, CC or sand will absorb the cooper you'll just need to put in quite a bit more, than the recommended dosage, to reach the correct level. Once you have reach the level you should be fine. It's maybe better to treat in an empty hospital tank, as there isn't anything to absorb the copper or medicine making it easier to reach the correct dosage, but you can still treat in a fully stock FOWLR tank without any problems.

 

[marrone]

I think the choice of hyposalinity is an excellent choice for your fish Awilda as long as you decrease the salinity slowly and after treatment, you raise it back to normal levels in an even SLOWER manner (your messing with the fishes kidneys here...). I know it is suggested to be 1.009 - 1.010 at 78-80 degrees for 14 days..past that point you are taking chances, so take another week after the 14 days to raise it back up. This is important due to the osmotic balance in SW fishes.

If you're going to treat using Hyposalinity you need to treat for at least 4 - 6 weeks. Basically 2-4 weeks after the last cyst falls off the fish body. Most fish can handle the lower SG without any problems and it usually reduces stress, not to mention the relief from not having ich on them. In smaller tanks it's better to go lower than 1.009 as it's very easy to have SG swings, especially with evaporation. If the SG goes up the cyst can hatch and then you'll have to start over again.