MR frag sharing program... "Don't break the chain"

[latino277]

Ok... there's a start... I guess I have some home work to do. I'll keep this all posts on this thread.

 

[Thales]

Hey guys! Glad you are interested in the program.

We had similar concerns when we started, and we just pushed forward.
Its not about getting, but giving and it takes a little time to get moving.

What made it work was that the person offering the coral up for adoption is/was allowed to make up whatever rules they wanted to the people wanted the coral. In other words, nothing had to be done by admins and moderation is minimal, the onus is on the people participating.

For instance

I have Sanjay's Throbbing Stag for the DBTC. To get this frag:
You are an MR donor
You agree that the first 2 frags you grow from it go back into the program
You agree that should I lose my colony, I get your next available frag

The offerer can then choose the adopters how ever they like - first poster or whom they think will have the best shot at keeping the coral. If someone abuses the system, word gets around and the stop getting DBTC frags.

Other guidlines that I have seen include:

- you are a BAR member
- you've had experience with SPS
- you agree to frag to at least 2 other person for free before trading etc.
- you can pick it up from me at a BAR meeting.
- and preferably can post growth pics to this thread periodically
- you have previously donated to DBTC Xtreme
- you are totally comfortable with propping tiny pico frags
- you have put back 8 or more (same or different) 2nd/3rd generation SPS/LPS DBTC, or
- you will start a DBTC with 2 tiny frags of something from this list:
Dinosaur Egg monti, Blue Matrix acro, Baby's Breath favia... (I may update this list from time to time, and will consider suggestions). If you use this option, you may make the frags as small as you are confident that they can be propped.

We started this way to get the program going with a simple forum of its own, and the program took off. We now have several categories of DBTC - regular, extreme, semi extreme and the new interclub. Its all very plastic, and evolves as it moves forward.

Since the program has been successful, we began looking at how to track corals in the program for various reasons, and we are almost ready to test our database driven tracking stuff.

Here is a link to our explanation of the program:
http://www.bareefers.org/discussion/index.php?topic=1903.0

What is DBTC
DBTC, stands for Don't Break The Chain, the idea is that it works like a Pay It Foward (PIF) type program, where someone donates a particular coral fragment with the idea that the person(s) who get said fragment will grow it out giving to others, who will in turn make fragment to others, etc.

I still don't get it. Why do we have this?
The idea behind it is to help spread coral species throughout the region. This will hopefully lessen the impact of taking corals from the oceans. As well as help spread diversity throughout the area. The idea was a way to push a non-greedy way of helping get corals out there to people. If you can get a coral fragment from a local farmer, that means less of an impact on the oceans. A great many of the "abundant" corals are not in any way mari/aquacultured since it's still profitable to hack them out of the seas.

Ok fine, so how do I get some free corals?
Now while you will get "free corals" this is not what this program is about, this is about sharing and be willing to share with others. While inevitably there will be a bit of a "greed" factor that seems to permeate, especially with more desirably corals, you have to understand the idea is that more will be offered, the way it works is that each coral grows exponentially (ideally), so while it may take some time the coral will be offered again. This program is NOT about stocking your empty tank with new corals for free, what it is about is helping grow a renewable resource and make it available for others for free.

Time? How much time do I need to wait?
It depends entirely on the amount of corals that are initially offered, and the type of corals. Some corals, specifically soft ones, grow quite readily so can be fragmented and dispersed quite rapidly, others like the small polyped stony corals grow relatively slowly, some grow a few inches a year! So it might take longer. Patience is the key, again this isn't to stock your tank full of corals so there should be no rush on getting one.

I don't have an Limited Edition or otherwise rare corals though
Doesn't matter, this program is not about distributing rare corals, if that happens, all the better however what is needed is a sharing of all corals not just rare ones. You have those brown mushrooms, offer them up, just don't be sad if no one wants any

Ok, I have corals I'd like to donate, who do I give them too? What do I do?
Alright, now we're talking! First you give them to whomever you wish they are your corals after all. Second you might want to list some rules, or follow some standard rules for who gets them. Third, start a new topic in this forum and type in all the gory details.
Some advice
1) Give a brief description of the coral in the topic you make, Blue acropora or whatever
2) Give a bit more detailed of a description in the coral in the body of the message, if you don't know the exact species who cares, it's hard, it's a stick, call it an acropora, chances are you'll be correct, someone else will be most likely help you identify, besides most corals can't be accurately identified beyond the genus. Mention what lighting you have it under, how high in the tank it is, the flow conditions,fish load, or anything else that's out of the ordinary that you might think is relevant.
3) A picture is worth a thousand words! Get a camera, take a picture, don't worry if it's not the best, just give an idea of the overall color/shape of the coral. Post to any one the many online photo hosting sites (photobucket.com, imageshack.us) and then post via

tags in the body of the message
4) Mention those rules, and what you would like seen with the coral as well.

What are these rules you mention??
The rules are simply a guideline, so overall call goes to whomever is offering since this is a voluntary program.
However some standard rules that can easily be followed, or referred to "See FAQ for rules" are the following

Must be BAR member. (you may open this up to what ever clubs you like, however this keeps it within the club, at least initially)
Must be good with XXX (where this is the type of coral, this means you don't just finish cycling your tank and want to fill it up with corals)
You agree to give frags to 3 more people before selling/trading of it (This is to keep the exponential growth thing going, also it helps safe guard against one person having an issue, tank crash, fell behind a rock, etc)
You agree to pick up XXX (Again wherever you like, BAR meeting is useful, since it makes people go to meetings , basically it's to keep people from expecting you to deliver it)
Pictures of progress ( it's nice to know how it's doing in other tanks under other conditions sometimes)

Ok great! I like it, so how is the program doing so far?
The program itself is doing great, there should be a spreadsheet in the works about exact corals, I don't have the number of frags offered/taken or number of chains that got created off hand, but hopefully in the near future I should.

The whole thing started with simple corals. As people caught onto the idea, crazy stuff started showing up of adoption and the generosity started to shine. Its really cool to see how it has grown.

 

[ellebelle]

Jonathan was telling me about this when he got back from your swap in February. I think that this is a really amazing program and while I understand where Tony's cynicism comes from (being quite the cynic myself ) I think that once the infrastructure is there, MR could probably manage something like this.

I mean, despite the fact that MR is a large community and I haven't met everyone personally, I have a pretty good sense of who can and can not properly care for an SPS coral.

 

[NYreefNoob]

FOR ME JOHN IT ISNT ABOUT THE RECIEVING OF STUFF BACK, ANY OF THOSE THAT HAVE DEALT WITH ME KNOW I GIVE ALOT MORE THEN I GET, AND THATS MY CHOICE, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PASSING FRAGS ON FOR OTHER'S TO GROW AND PASS ALONG ALSO, ACTUALLY I REALLY LIKE THE IDEA, I HAVE BEEN SCANNING THEIR SITE AFTER READING THE ARTICLE MYSELF, I THINK IT IS A WAY FOR MEMBER'S TO GROW TO LIKE THE HOBBY MORE, ALSO TO GET SOMETHING SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE THEY CANT OR COULDNT AFFORD TO GET AND SAME FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS ALOT OF VARIETY TO RECIEVE AND GROW OUT A PIECE TO PASS ON AS WELL. I MIGHT HAVE A PIECE OR 2 TO START WITH :inlove:

 

[latino277]

I have a pretty good sense of who can and can not properly care for an SPS coral.

this should extend to all coral.. not just sps.

 

[latino277]

FOR ME JOHN IT ISNT ABOUT THE RECIEVING OF STUFF BACK, ANY OF THOSE THAT HAVE DEALT WITH ME KNOW I GIVE ALOT MORE THEN I GET, AND THATS MY CHOICE, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PASSING FRAGS ON FOR OTHER'S TO GROW AND PASS ALONG ALSO, ACTUALLY I REALLY LIKE THE IDEA, I HAVE BEEN SCANNING THEIR SITE AFTER READING THE ARTICLE MYSELF, I THINK IT IS A WAY FOR MEMBER'S TO GROW TO LIKE THE HOBBY MORE, ALSO TO GET SOMETHING SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE THEY CANT OR COULDNT AFFORD TO GET AND SAME FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS ALOT OF VARIETY TO RECIEVE AND GROW OUT A PIECE TO PASS ON AS WELL. I MIGHT HAVE A PIECE OR 2 TO START WITH :inlove:

Cool... Hold on to those frags for a few I'm sure we'll get this roling and that would be great to start (when we start that is).

 

[House of Laughter]

Let's not forget about how important this is to the origins of MR and supporting the position of not raping the natural reefs and gaining corals from within. Propagation leads to preservation - let's keep that in focus as we share/trade/swap etc

I'd be willing to start/participate and have a great LPS frag to start with.

House

 

[bookfish]

BAR BOD's have always sought to promote generosity and a spirit of doing what's best for the animals. The primary focus of the DBTC program is on the establishment of captive strains of coral. The secondary focus is on the spirit of generosity this program creates within our community. Focus on community building has been a hallmark of BAR since we started it way back when... I think as long as those 2 priorities drive a clubs efforts, this program should be easy for others to adopt/ adapt.-Jim

 

[Josh]

We are planning a "trade only" event this summer in Central Park.

July or August, date will be posted soon!

Start to think about what frags you will have ready by that time.

 

[Domboski]

Are Gorgonians viable for this program? :scratchch

 

[jhale]

John I'm glad you found the DBTC program on your own and are behind it.

This is something Randy, Jim, Kedd, Kasei, Wiltold, and myself participated in. I was going out to SF and my trip coincided with BARS swap so we thought it would cool for me to go and bring a box of frags.
That got the ball rolling as Randy pointed out, and the rest will be history

I think the program can work here. It may not be for everyone, but we'll come up with a way to make it work.

The BAR guys already have all the kinks worked out, it should not be hard to take their guidelines and implement them on the east coast.
And more West Coast / East Coast trading would be amazing

 

[bookfish]

In the BAR DBTC program, anything that can be captive propagated is eligible. We have snails, sponges, macro algae etc... in the program. Part of what makes the BAR program work so well is its lack of formal rules and its flexibility at the level of individual participation. Some of us hippie East coast transplants don't respond too well to rules coming down from "on high". LOL-Jim:smile:

 

[latino277]

WOW... I really had no clue that this was going on in the back ground and I very glad it is. Further more, I can't wait to start.

 

[Domboski]

In the BAR DBTC program, anything that can be captive propagated is eligible. We have snails, sponges, macro algae etc... in the program. Part of what makes the BAR program work so well is its lack of formal rules and its flexibility at the level of individual participation.

Makes sense. I guess as long as there are takers I should be fine

Some of us hippie East coast transplants don't respond too well to rules coming down from "on high". LOL-Jim:smile:

:biglaugh:

 

[latino277]

there are 2 major issues I see.

1st and the biggest is keeping people honest! there are going to be people that will take advantage of "the free frag" and try and flip them for a profit and not abid by the rules set from the doner. We have to find a way to call these people out... but with out causing major drama and negative feedback to the project.

2nd is tracking the progress and "family tree" of the coral being donated. Some people would like to know that the tyree acro is really a tyree acro and that what they are trying to prop... (some people really get into the names of some of these corals... me.. if i like it... and can afford it... i get it.)

 

[bookfish]

Unfortunately it's not possible (nor desirable, IMO) to "keep people honest". The hope is that by the time a reefer has become a club member and been introduced to the spirit of community and sharing that a hobbyist club offers, they'll see the benefit of behaving in a community oriented way. If not for the sake of the community, then at least for the sake of the animals. The BAR program simply assumes that the vast majority of participants will behave correctly and proceeds from there. It's a true "Pay it Forward" program both in terms of the actual coral being exchanged and the spirit of generosity and goodwill that goes with it.

 

[Mr. Ugly]

Yep, what Jim said.

You don't want to be in the position of having to force people to behave in a particular way.

If you can start with a small group of people that believe in the vision of the program, you can grow it from there.

It's as much about growing the kind of community spirit that you want, as it is about growing the animals

Glad you all are talking about doing this!

 

[masterswimmer]

Makes sense. I guess as long as there are takers I should be fine


:biglaugh:

Ditto, I'm not an SPS guy. But LPS and softies are beautiful too :biggrin: I know I've got some non SPS goodies that others would cherish. Looking forward to jumping in on this DBTC bandwagon.

swimmer

 

[prattreef]

I think this is wonderful that there is so much interest in this kind of effort, but it did get me thinking fondly of the reefing hobby say 8-10 years ago when DBTC WAS the hobby and it was really rare and kind of frowned upon that anyone charged anything for frags.

Just showing my age I guess.

 

[bookfish]

I remember that too!
And you can have some of it back by focusing your club community on positivity and respect for each other and the animals. DBTC is a great learning/ teaching tool for such an effort.