450 gallon Upgrade to the Beast

[bbreef240]

did you get that tank from 20gallonreefer....if so that was my old tank ..sold it to him about a year ago...good luck ...it was an awesome tank....

 

[TommyP]

tagging along for this ride, looks like a real nice tank. good luck!

 

[allenjj]

Water Flow

Are you generating a random type flow in your tank now or using some program for the flow pattern?

Nice project. Some great advice from Alfie on buffing it out. Do yourself a favor and buff it out as perfect as you can. It will never be this easy again.(unless its completely empty) If you need some people to do it for you I have those contacts. In adition, I would most definitely look into a closed loop. When I setup my new tank I will definitely be using one. I have 4 mp60's and 4 mp40's on my 500( 10' x 30" x 31") and it still isn't enough. If you can really spend time on a proper closed loop(hidden and intergrated with your rockwork you can eliminate some of those "hard to reach flow areas. Just my 2cents and enjoy the build it is always very exciting.

Thane

 

[ClosetFishGeek]

Are you generating a random type flow in your tank now or using some program for the flow pattern?

I have half of my Vortechs on wave crest mode and the others in ecosmart mode. In adition, I have 4 1" seaswirls that return all the water to the tank. I highly recommend the sea swirls. Great way of making good use of returning water in a random mannor. Also if you are looking for a nice pump. I have been using a Bashsea pump for over two years. It is the Mad Flo 8500. THis ran my whole system which consisyed of a 450 & 500 gallon tank. It pushes out 8500gph and can handle quit a bit of head pressure. And in the real world its running watts is 405 not the posted 363. That number is still quite good. It is also under $400 which is a bargain. Here is the link http://www.bashsea.com/index.php/products/mad-flo-pumps

Good luck

Thane

 

[allenjj]

Flow

Great looking pump, unfortunately my sump is in the basement below the tank. Calculated head pressure of my present system which includes a manifold is currently 19 feet. At that head pressure my hammerhead gold is producing about 350 gph. With the new tank in place, my rough head pressure calculation is 26 - 29 feet. That would make my hammerhead and the bashsea both shut off. Nice price for the pump however. Guessing I am going to be about 1000 watts with the new pump. Have you looked into the threads for a gyre motion? I am thinking if I put my returns on a solenoid I could turn two on going one direction and then switch to two going in the opposite direction. With eductors and pumps in the tank set up to alternate flow, I think I would get a sweet circular motion with less horesepower. There are several threads of large tank owners using a gyre, but havent found anyone that I can actually talk with out how the flow worked. My thought is to start with the pumps (other than primary return pump) that I have and see how much motion I can get on the water flow. Definitely looking at the sea swirls, unless I decide on the gyre, then will add an eductor to each return to accelerate the flow.

I have half of my Vortechs on wave crest mode and the others in ecosmart mode. In adition, I have 4 1" seaswirls that return all the water to the tank. I highly recommend the sea swirls. Great way of making good use of returning water in a random mannor. Also if you are looking for a nice pump. I have been using a Bashsea pump for over two years. It is the Mad Flo 8500. THis ran my whole system which consisyed of a 450 & 500 gallon tank. It pushes out 8500gph and can handle quit a bit of head pressure. And in the real world its running watts is 405 not the posted 363. That number is still quite good. It is also under $400 which is a bargain. Here is the link http://www.bashsea.com/index.php/products/mad-flo-pumps

Good luck

Thane

 

[allenjj]

Update

Well today the variable speed buffer arrived today along with micro fiber bonnets. Got the novus polishing compound today as well. Now waiting for the 3000 grit wet / dry sanding paper to arrive. If it arrives, this weekend will be spent getting the tank ready.

 

[ClosetFishGeek]

Great looking pump, unfortunately my sump is in the basement below the tank. Calculated head pressure of my present system which includes a manifold is currently 19 feet. At that head pressure my hammerhead gold is producing about 350 gph. With the new tank in place, my rough head pressure calculation is 26 - 29 feet. That would make my hammerhead and the bashsea both shut off. Nice price for the pump however. Guessing I am going to be about 1000 watts with the new pump. Have you looked into the threads for a gyre motion? I am thinking if I put my returns on a solenoid I could turn two on going one direction and then switch to two going in the opposite direction. With eductors and pumps in the tank set up to alternate flow, I think I would get a sweet circular motion with less horesepower. There are several threads of large tank owners using a gyre, but havent found anyone that I can actually talk with out how the flow worked. My thought is to start with the pumps (other than primary return pump) that I have and see how much motion I can get on the water flow. Definitely looking at the sea swirls, unless I decide on the gyre, then will add an eductor to each return to accelerate the flow.

I have and when I build my next tank it will be a variation of it. On RC there is a member named dkeller nc. He has some nice insight on fluid dynamics. Also look into this if you are doing your Cl http://www.derkroon.com/store/products/digital-flow-diverters
At the end of the day I feel(and I am no expert) that a combonation of water movement will be ideal.( Cl, vortech/tunze, and good use of return sea swirls)

Thane

 

[allenjj]

Design Considerations

That would be almost perfect since it can be controlled with time delay to set returns to alternate. I am going to look at solenoids to see if I can get two to open and close for less cost and then my apex can control them along with pump ramp up and down for the tunzes. I think adding an eductor to each return and directing them to help create the gyre flow makes a lot of sense. Just didnt see much other discussion of it, except on some Australian and south African sites. I am really thinking thats how I am going to begin this tank at least to see if creating an alternating gyre will be more energy efficient as well as good for the creatures. Right now I am leaning on a 2 hour alternating cycle, but may adjust that based on flow rates achieved by using eductors along with the in tank pumps. Either way plan to have one set of flow directed up from the bottom of the tank to maintain suspension of particles. Oh well. The 3000 grit sand paper arrived today, so this weekend will be focused on refinishing the tank. Hoping to get it done and then get the stand and tank moved inside to start the staging for the move. Anyone that wants to help or supervise is welcome, just let me know.

I have and when I build my next tank it will be a variation of it. On RC there is a member named dkeller nc. He has some nice insight on fluid dynamics. Also look into this if you are doing your Cl http://www.derkroon.com/store/products/digital-flow-diverters
At the end of the day I feel(and I am no expert) that a combonation of water movement will be ideal.( Cl, vortech/tunze, and good use of return sea swirls)

Thane

 

[allenjj]

More specs

Looks like it has almost 1" outputs with about 1 1/4" input. Might be cheaper than 4 solenoids, but going to investigate further. Looks like it would fit the bill though with 2 outputs open at a time alternating with time delay between each.

 

[allenjj]

Flow Diverter

Weird how their specs show metric but their user manual shows inches so just emailed them for more details.

 

[allenjj]

Slow Progress

What a pain to sand and polish. Not really hard work but somewhat tedious and since its muggy outside hot. Tested skills, equipment and technique on a small area of the top and overall looks good, just time consuming.

 

[allenjj]

Finishing Day

Today is tank finishing day. Hope to have it done by tonight.

 

[allenjj]

Almost done then will upload pics of process

Outside tank is done and inside is almost done sanding. Then to polish out inside and one last inspection for scratches.

 

[allenjj]

Slow progress

Finally taking a break after the polisher tried to eat me by grabbing a hold of my shirt and twisting my arm. The inside is done, but think I want to run one more #2 polish on it to really buff it out. Now that the inside is done, I am finding more scratches that I didn't see before on the outside so think I am going to sand the entire viewing panel down again, then buff it out (#3, then #2, then #1 cleaning).

 

[allenjj]

Update

Well finally have the outside of the tank done, but still have some issues inside so am going to sand one more time before buffing it out. Overall its looking good and will post pics this weekend when done. Hopefully will have moved the stand and tank into dining room to start plumbing and staging for switch over.

 

[jamesonwhiskey]

what turnover rate are you aiming for on the tank?

 

[allenjj]

Flow

Generally I would say 5000 gph, but I think I am going to try the gyre flow alternating directions every hour or 2. So not sure except enough flow to keep all the critters happy. Already have 4 6105 tunze pumps in the current tank that will move over. They only operate at 30% max now with excellent flow results. With the addition of eductors on the returns, it will be interesting to see how much energy it takes to get the flow I want.

 

[allenjj]

Slow but sure progress

Tank is now all sanded and buffed out. Looks really good so will post some pics of progress in a bit. Moved it so its now just off patio positioned for it and stand to be moved into the dining room in preparation for the big switch. Ordered the Dolphin Diamond Aqua Sea 9250 type 3 seal pump and a Bubble Magus doser. I think the Dolphin pump will give me the flow and head pressure I need so will have lots of options. Now that tank is ready am excited to start getting the plumbing done for it and figuring out the staging for the Big Switch.

 

[jamesonwhiskey]

Generally I would say 5000 gph, but I think I am going to try the gyre flow alternating directions every hour or 2. So not sure except enough flow to keep all the critters happy. Already have 4 6105 tunze pumps in the current tank that will move over. They only operate at 30% max now with excellent flow results. With the addition of eductors on the returns, it will be interesting to see how much energy it takes to get the flow I want.

I'm aiming for 10-12x turnover as well from everything I have read, but I'm not sure if this number should be based on the capacity of just the DT or of everything (DT+sump+fuge)?

 

[allenjj]

Progress of the sanding

First two pics show slow progress with the sanding and buffing which is now done. Last pic is newest toy which just arrived today.