? for people who say a skimmer is a must

[SWITCH420]

the algae will keep growing and start to fall off the screen. over time i guess it return no3 po4 to the tank but have to really not clean it 4 a while. screens are self contained depending on the set up mine is in a 5 gal bucket. no way to fall in the tank.same evaporation with and without the scrubber about 5gal every 2-3 days.not sure on 02

 

[18oreefer]

ill throw my $.02 in beerfish. from what i have been reading if you do fail to maintain it you will put no3 and po4 back in the water in 2 ways. 1 the screen gets over grown and the algae can drop off and makes its way to a dead spot in the tank where it can decompose and put everything back into the water that it took out. 2 the algae can get so thick on it if it has a good hold, on a well roughened up screen, that the under layers no longer receive sufficient lighting. lack of light as we all know will cause it to die and then leach everything back in the water as well.

If the screen fell in the water i dont see it being a problem because we all know how much of a pain it is to remove hair algae from rocks in high water flow areas. the link i have in the other thread says as time goes by the algae keeps getting tougher and tougher to remove from the screen.

I have had mine up for 5 days now and i really havent noticed much of a significant amount more evap., and im using cf's so im not getting a lot of heat off of the lights.

As for the skimmer i think im gunna keep it rollin and do a combo of the 2. With all the tang poop i got i think both devices will function just fine.

 

[SWITCH420]

thanks 180reefer and keep us posted

 

[beerfish]

Hmmm... I'm still curious about the water's oxygen levels. Anyone know if this has been tested anywhere? I really don't think I'd ever replace my skimmer, but I would consider building a small one of these (Maybe even a HOB one with a MJ1200 using the tank's lights) as a supplemental filtration.

 

[SWITCH420]

i am almost sure it has have 2 try and find it

 

[18oreefer]

beerfish: http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/saltwater-general-discussion/54076-mega-powerful-nitrate-phosphate-remover-diy.html

scroll down between 1/3 and 1/2 way down and there is a list of advantages to a scrubber. o2 added to the water from the scrubber seems like a no brainer do to photosynthesis/ plant respiration co2 to o2. how much the scrubber contributes i could not say.

 

[SWITCH420]

Q: What exactly does a scrubber do to my water?
A: It takes ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, metals (like copper), and CO2 out of the water. It puts oxygen into the water. It also cools the water. And if you put a fan on it, it REALLY cools the water. Increased evaporation, of course, will also occur. Copepods are added to the water. Iron and Iodine are removed from the water, but they are of lesser importance, and are removed to a lesser degree, than the above items. Alkalinity may in some cases be slightly decreased, because of algae's slight use of bicarbonate to get CO2. Water clarity is also sometimes improved, although it is not known why.

 

[SWITCH420]

Scrubber News:

Awards: It's finally happened... A scrubber-only tank (no skimmer) has won Tank Of The Month. "Mudshark", whose pics have been posted here for a while, just won the August Tank Of The Month at MASA (Marine Aquariums of South Africa)...
http://www.marineaquariumsa.com/featuredsystems/Aug2009

 

[18oreefer]

dont forget to give santa monica credit on the last 2 posts.

 

[SWITCH420]

oops yes thank you santa monica for info above

 

[NYreefNoob]

your showing of brand site that have won totm, do the percentage of them or people who run skimmers, julian sprung, Dr sanjay, simmon garret, randy holmes farley, and the list continues your trying to convince people of something that you wont convince, as stated a thousand times, does it work ? yes it does, now come back to this thread a yr from now and show a pic of your tank, would think if this old device turf scrubber was so great that all the leading speakers in the hobby would doing it as well dont you ?

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Welcome to the thread that punctuation forgot!

:scratchch I wonder would alot of the misunderstandings here be solved with the use of some punctuations?

 

[SWITCH420]

LOL I know its mostly me

 

[albano]

Welcome to the thread that punctuation forgot!

Well, Chief, we were ALL hoping, that YOU would open your mind, to the possibility, that a thread can be successfully run, WITHOUT PUNCTUATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sharkbait69]

i think and feel this is becoming supercalafragalisticexpialadoshus kind of a thread.
thanks for the nominee but I respectfully decline. I like to keep a low profile just in case I lose it and have a melt down on a thread.

 

[beerfish]

Welcome to the thread that punctuation forgot!

:scratchch I wonder would alot of the misunderstandings here be solved with the use of some punctuations?

I.

Argree!

With?

You;

Chief,

 

[georgelc86]

So now that all the drama is over... Let me ask a few questions to try to expand my knowledge on the topic.

If you fail to maintain the scrubber (regular cleaning), what is the likely outcome? Will it just stop functioning properly, or will it return NO3 and PO4 to the water, causing a spike? In addition, what would happen if the screen somehow fell into the water and went unnoticed for a day (or a few days).

Does the waterfall effect with the added heat from the lights significantly effect your evaporation rate, and if so, are you running an ATO to compensate for this?

Skimmers produce a huge number of bubbles which help oxygenate the water. While the waterfall produces some agitation, has anyone checked O2 levels in the tank when running one over the other?

Cleaning is definitely needed, I have noticed on mine that when I missed that cleaning algae creeped right back. If the screen fell in the water there is no harm done other than the detritus that's trapped within the filaments getting lose and clouding the water a bit. The process wouldnt continue but not as efficiently.

I have noticed a slight increase in evap but a larger drop in temp. Its perfect for the summer. Its not so much the heat from the lights but the surface area of the screen contributing to the evap.

In theory, the ATS should introduce O2 into the tank from the algae processing the CO2, the levels may be slightly lower or on par with a skimmer but the water rushing down the screen should increase the surface area contact time with the environment thus promoting excellent O2 CO2 exchange. I have never tested so I couldnt help prove or disprove those theories.

 

[Psycho graphic]

dont forget to give santa monica credit on the last 2 posts.

oops yes thank you santa monica for info above

Anyone who gives credit or thanks Santa Monica for his one sided, full of BS theories, really needs to do a little more research than what they have. His spamming of every forum that will have him. is full of rediculously overhyped theories on how well an ATS works.

Do they work, yes. to anywhere near the extent that he claims? NO. Are they anything new, absolutely not!

If you research on some sites, you will see when he is confronted with why his ATS can not live up to his claims, he changes the subject or will quote people such as Fenner, Calfo and the like out of text to his own benefit.

I would say about 90% of the ATS's being built are not only questionably unsafe, they are downright fire hazards in the making.

Try researching NanoReef or Reefs.org to see him get shot down by people in the know and his rediculous run around to avoid answering their questions. It also should be noted he was banned from RC for PM'ing mods to start trouble concerning people who did'nt agree with his overzealous claims. Another thing to note, not once on all of the forums I have visited that he has spammed, nhas he posted outside of his own threads. That right there shows he is only interested in promoting his own ideas.

BTW, he also is trying to market kits and supplies for making these, which IMO makes him pretty biased on the subject.

Anyone seen his tank? Not very impressive to say the least.

 

[prattreef]

Well, the lack of his overzealous hyping here has been one of the true welcome surprises of the past year. I fear our luck may have finally run out. And for the record, I am not anti turf scrubber in the least. As noted earlier in the thread I run several non-skimmed full blown reefs myself (though not with scrubbers), but I'd NEVER recommend this approach to anyone remotely new to the hobby.

 

[beerfish]

Anyone who gives credit or thanks Santa Monica for his one sided, full of BS theories, really needs to do a little more research than what they have. His spamming of every forum that will have him. is full of rediculously overhyped theories on how well an ATS works.

Do they work, yes. to anywhere near the extent that he claims? NO. Are they anything new, absolutely not!

If you research on some sites, you will see when he is confronted with why his ATS can not live up to his claims, he changes the subject or will quote people such as Fenner, Calfo and the like out of text to his own benefit.

I would say about 90% of the ATS's being built are not only questionably unsafe, they are downright fire hazards in the making.

Try researching NanoReef or Reefs.org to see him get shot down by people in the know and his rediculous run around to avoid answering their questions. It also should be noted he was banned from RC for PM'ing mods to start trouble concerning people who did'nt agree with his overzealous claims.

BTW, he also is trying to market kits and supplies for making these, which IMO makes him pretty biased on the subject.

Anyone seen his tank? Not very impressive to say the least.

This has been my one of my issues with this setup for awhile. I've seen a lot of unanswered questions, and don't trust what one person says, regardless of how many forums he posts on.