Setting Up a QT while my DT is cycling

[Marcellina]

I am only using the buffer nothing else. The buffer contains carbonate, bicarbonate and borate salt.

 

[KathyC]

Yes its the same tank, it was the 29 G DT that was 8.4-8.8

I did about 1/3 water change and then when I checked the ph it was 7.8 My QT is 8.4 and that is a good level right?

I didnt want to mess with the QT so I used the buffer to raise the ph on the DT. The directions say 1 tsp per 20-30 G. I used only 1/4 tsp( a little rounded on top so a little more than 1/4)

The reading this morning it was 7.8-8.0 but 24 hours hadnt passed yet, the instructions say to test after 24 hours . I tested a few hours ago and its 8.4. I hope it stays at that. I will retest in the morning.

I keep making the saltwater for both tanks as I need it, I am using 4.5 gallon jugs to make it. I test it to make sure the SG is the same but havent tested the ph.

8.4 is a tad high in the QT - aiming for 8.0 - 8.2 during the day when the lights are on (PH tends to drop slightly at night)


Did you test it again this morning? What is the PH now in the DT?

You might want to test the PH of the new SW.
What kind of salt are you using?

Best to try and stir your DRY salt mix before using. I've read that it is possible that when the manufacturers make salt mix, some of the ingredients may be added in 'layers' (one ingredient at a time) and unless you physically mix the stuff up, at times you may have an overabundance of a particular item when making your water. May not be your case, but cant' hurt to mix the stuff up

My concern for you is the PH swing - if your fish were in that tank when the PH went from the high of 8.4- 8.8 down to 7.8 - they'd be dead now.

Please stop using the buffer, it will do nothing but harm things at this point.

 

[Marcellina]

I only used the buffer the one time and I not even the dose they recommended it was 1/4 of what they said and it brought it up to 8.4 imagine if I put the full tsp???

Ok not going to use it again I wasnt happy about using it in the first place so its fine by me. How does one go about raising the PH naturally then?

I use Instand Ocean salt. I put it in the 4.4 gallon jug of water and measure out 2.5 cups of salt put the top on and shake it up really good. THen I test the SG of the new water making sure its 1.025 -1.026

I tested the PH this morning and you are right! They are both the same color on the tube. You said you use the API tests ... how do you read them do you place them on TOP of the white card or just in front of it? If I place it in FRONT of the card the color would read LIGHTER and then if I place it on TOP the reading is Darker. Right now they are both the same its 8.2

I think you may be right about the salt. I add the amount that they say and the SG is always lower. I let it sit for a little while then shake it up again thinking the salt hasnt all dissolved but its still lower and I add 1/4 cup more of salt until I get 1.025 -1.026.

 

[KathyC]

How does one go about raising the PH naturally then?

Water changes - with no other stuff added except for the salt mix.

Hold it in front of the card, but not leaning against the card - and look in natural light.

Newly mixed SW should sit overnight so it can dissolve entirely - and it should have a power head mixing it so that it is aerated as well.Since you
are doing it in jugs (like those water bottles??) might be a thought to add an airstone to help in mixing and aerating it.

 

[Marcellina]

Water changes - with no other stuff added except for the salt mix.

You know I am NEVER listening to another LFG again. I had them test the water - just to compare to my tests - and he INSISTED that there was nothing NATURAL that can raise the PH only a BUFFER. I kept saying well how does it get raised in the wild? His response was 'circle of life' 'survival of the fitest' something of that nature.

Hold it in front of the card, but not leaning against the card - and look in natural light.

Ok, thats the reading I keep writing down in my log. Needed to make sure!

Newly mixed SW should sit overnight so it can dissolve entirely - and it should have a power head mixing it so that it is aerated as well.Since you
are doing it in jugs (like those water bottles??) might be a thought to add an airstone to help in mixing and aerating it.

Am I doing it wrong by mising as needed? and using the jugs? I dont have room to keep barrels of water and buying natural sea water is expensive $20+++ per 4 gallons!

 

[masterswimmer]

Marcellina, at this point in time (after just coming back to your thread from last night till now) you've gone through about 54 water changes, 23 pH drops, 12 pH increases, yada yada yada. If you have a pH between 8.0-8.4....LEAVE IT ALONE. You're agonizing much to much. Fiddling with it like this is only going to make it unstable. IMO, even if your pH was 7.8 but constant and not fluctuating, I'd say it was fine. What you want to do is create a stable environment. Your system, between last night and this morning has gone through more changes than most systems do in a whole year. Please don't misread this. I'm not looking to blast away at you. I'm just trying to be a little over dramatic to drive home a point. Stability is the key to success.

Add zero chemicals to your system for the foreseeable future. After that, dosing Ca, Alk, & Mg will be all you probably ever do going forward, but ONLY when you're testing for those levels first.

As Kathy said, your pH is going to fluctuate between sunrise and sunset. pH will drop at night when lights are out. It is a function of nature and photosynthesis. So you need to monitor your pH at the same time every day. Not intermitent times throughout the day. You'll drive yourself crazy.

Hopefully this 'do nothing' for 24-48 hrs, including testing, will permit the parameters to find their own level and give you an opportunity to find the baseline.

Remember, do nothing except take a red LED at night and look at all the little critters running around the sand, rocks and glass. Enjoy the tank and observe what's going on in it.

Russ

 

[Marcellina]

Marcellina, at this point in time (after just coming back to your thread from last night till now) you've gone through about 54 water changes, 23 pH drops, 12 pH increases, yada yada yada. If you have a pH between 8.0-8.4....LEAVE IT ALONE.

OKAY!! LOL - I didnt do a water change or add anything since Wednesday night.

You're agonizing much to much.
I know

Fiddling with it like this is only going to make it unstable.
and me too .... sigh j/k

IMO, even if your pH was 7.8 but constant and not fluctuating, I'd say it was fine. What you want to do is create a stable environment. Your system, between last night and this morning has gone through more changes than most systems do in a whole year.

I didnt do anything but Test bw wednesday night and this morning. lat night the PH was 8.4 this morning it 8.2. I didnt DO anything to create this drop. Does the lights off during the night create this slight drop?
​

Please don't misread this. I'm not looking to blast away at you. I'm just trying to be a little over dramatic to drive home a point. Stability is the key to success.

Blast away! But quietly my baby is sleeping! :shhh: DOnt worry I know you are trying to teach me the right way and the wrong way to do things and when to be concerned and when not to be concerned. Thank you for that.
​

Add zero chemicals to your system for the foreseeable future. After that, dosing Ca, Alk, & Mg will be all you probably ever do going forward, but ONLY when you're testing for those levels first.

I agree. I dont want to have a chemical reef. I just dont know much to argue in the LFS you know what I mean? The guy told me that the PH is off and that the buffer is the ONLY thing to fix it. I asked if I could do a water change and he said not to do it while cycling bc it will remove all the beneficial bacteria and defeat the purpose of cycling. And also that the PH would not get raised only lower with a water change. - DO I have to whack him over the head? Is he telling me BS?
​

As Kathy said, your pH is going to fluctuate between sunrise and sunset. pH will drop at night when lights are out. It is a function of nature and photosynthesis. So you need to monitor your pH at the same time every day. Not intermitent times throughout the day. You'll drive yourself crazy.

Ok then I will stick to the afternoon around 3pm.

Hopefully this 'do nothing' for 24-48 hrs, including testing, will permit the parameters to find their own level and give you an opportunity to find the baseline.

Remember, do nothing except take a red LED at night and look at all the little critters running around the sand, rocks and glass. Enjoy the tank and observe what's going on in it.

I have to get that red light soon. All I see in the daytime is lots of hermit crab poop in there! LOL

 

[masterswimmer]

:shhh: Baby asleep

:grouphug:

You'll be breeding those clowns before you know it. :bablefish whispering

Russ

 

[tomtoothdoc]

IMO, even if your pH was 7.8 but constant and not fluctuating, I'd say it was fine. What you want to do is create a stable environment. Your system, between last night and this morning has gone through more changes than most systems do in a whole year. more important than any specific number value....which is in the acceptable range. another word steady 7.8 is better than swinging up and down from 8.0-8.4 from you trying to adjust it.

I didnt do anything but Test bw wednesday night and this morning. lat night the PH was 8.4 this morning it 8.2. I didnt DO anything to create this drop. Does the lights off during the night create this slight drop?
​

As Kathy said, your pH is going to fluctuate between sunrise and sunset. pH will drop at night when lights are out. It is a function of nature and photosynthesis.


just pointing out what had been said....normally ph swings between light period and dark period.....sometimes people get confused with day and night term...for our tanks, day is when the lights are on....has nothing to do with time of the day. that said, ph normally drops after the tank is dark for a period of time (hours not just as soon as the lights turns off). the explanation for your ph higer at night and lower in the morning....could be you tested soon right after the lights went off which actually still residual from "light" period and tested in the "morning" before the lights on your tank come on, therefore it's the "dark" period. am i confusing you?....lol

to simplify everything said:
dark period= lower ph because higher co2
light period= higher ph because lower co2(which is higher o2)
from these statements, that's why aerating your water raises ph.(more o2)

t

 

[Marcellina]

Ooooh ok I gotcha! When I had the extra pump in there, a Koralia1, the PH was still 7.8. SHould I point it upward to make more bubbles or ripples in the top of the water? I am looking through my notebook log and it seems that everytime I do a water change on the DT when its at 8.2 - 8.4 it goes down to 7.8 after the water change.

Is it necessary to keep it higher than 7.8 for the fish and coral? Cant I keep it at 7.8 if that is still good and that is what would make my tank stabile?

 

[KathyC]

Ooooh ok I gotcha! When I had the extra pump in there, a Koralia1, the PH was still 7.8. SHould I point it upward to make more bubbles or ripples in the top of the water? I am looking through my notebook log and it seems that everytime I do a water change on the DT when its at 8.2 - 8.4 it goes down to 7.8 after the water change.

Is it necessary to keep it higher than 7.8 for the fish and coral? Cant I keep it at 7.8 if that is still good and that is what would make my tank stabile?

Yes, you want to point it upwards. You also want to have the water in your DT (and QT) doing the same thing to promote oxygen exchange

For as much as we all want you to get your tank stable first - 7.8 would be a tad low - but don't do anything more than what has already been suggested please.
Just getting some oxygen into your water may be the solution

 

[Marcellina]

Ok Ok I am listening to you guys. I am not going to use the buffer again. Like I said I was a a fool to have been convinced by the local fish store that the only way was to put chemicals in my tank. I cant believe he pretty much scoffed when I said no there has to be a natural way.

I went there today to try and return the jar of buffer but they wouldnt take it back. I looked around at 'Dory' and 'Nemo' for my 3 uear old as he loves looking at all the fish and I was stunned to see a tank full of small puffers in a tank and on the tank was written 'great for cycling a tank!'

So nothing is going to 'be put' into the tank anymore.

Right now they are both the same at 8.2

 

[masterswimmer]

I'm sure you've got other purveyors of marine livestock nearby that can offer you critters with advice that is much less controversial, on numerous levels

It sounds like you've got a grip on things, at least in theory. Glad to hear it.

R

 

[KathyC]

Any update Marcellina?

 

[Marcellina]

Yes KathyC. The tanks stayed at 8.2PH so I moved over the corals a little at a time. some yesterday morning, the rest last night.

They are doing really good. The frogspawn is a little closed up and not flourished but I think its bc he must feel a little manhandled. He wasnt glued down to anything just wedged in a little nook but then kept falling off into the sandbed. I gave in and finally glued him in place. I think its just sulking.

The fish are still in the QT. One of them looks like he has tiny white dots on his back :irked: I think its Ick. I didnt notice it until last night after th last of the corals was put in the display tank.

Can corals carry ick?

How do I treat my little fish now. The one that looks like he has it goes into the PVC pipe and swims in a circle probably to scratch himself.

Hyposalinity or copper or both? What should I do?

 

[KathyC]

The frogspawn is probably pouting as you mention.
Yes, coral can carry ich imo. Whatever is in the tank water can be on a coral.

Can you get a pic of the fish?

Cannot do copper & hypo at the same time - it's one or the other.
Lots of info here (best on the web IMO)
http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

If you are going to use copper - you MUST have a copper test kit to keep the copper at the correct medicinal level or it will do you no good.

 

[Marcellina]

So by moving all the corals into my main tank I may have contaminated the main tank? :frown:

I will read the link you sent me. I have read alot of articles online about ick and some mention keeping the main tank fallow for two months. That this will kill off any ick that is in there, if it is in there, bc it cant survive without a fish host.

The fish is so fast. It looke like the size of grains of salt. the dots are a bit raised. He is acting very normal swimming around and playful with the other fish. His breathing is normal too and he is eating well, he is always hungry it seems. I put a mesh bag of chaeto directly in the QT that couldnt affect him can it?

 

[KathyC]

Yes, that is possible..remotely but no point in taking the chance if it was introduced. 6 weeks will do it, no host & they can't live. Inverts don;t count as they cant host ich.

The chaeto is fine - no issue there.

Find some pics of fish with ich and see if they look like yours to confirm it. Yeah - some fish are stupidly quick, I have about 10,000 blurry photos to prove it..lol

 

[fdavila514]

kathy, i got to tell ya. U got some patience!

 

[masterswimmer]

M, since you've got everything separated, you're going to have an easy time ridding the fish and systems of ich. Just leave the DT fallow for 6-8 weeks. As you and Kath both said, the ich cyst cannot survive without a fish host. So the DT will be fine.

Now you just have to treat the QT fish with either copper or hypo. Your call. Kathy's link is perfect.

Good luck. It looks like you're getting there. These things take time. So nice to see that you have the patience needed to succeed. :biggrin:

Russ