Setting Up a QT while my DT is cycling

[KathyC]

Thank so much for all your help!

No I am not feeding the CUC. I put them in to clean up the algae that was forming and the diatom.

I am measuring the PH with API High Range Test. I dont want to use chemical if I dont have to thats why I just left it alone until I got some advice on here. I will test it again tomorrow morning. Would another water change tomorrow bring it down? What is the best PH to have it at? The QT is at 8.4, thats the highest it should ever be and still be ok right?

Im glad the lights are good for soft corals, I want to only have peaceful easy corals and livestock in my tank.
I got the better lights bc I thought that the corals(zoas,acans and frogspawn are considered corals right? dont laugh im new! lol) had to stay in the QT for at least 4 weeks bc I put them in with the fish. I have heard that people usually QT corals for up to 2 weeks and fish 4 weeks. My intention was to have the QT up for 4 to 6 weeks but I dont think thats gonna happen now right? I wish it could but whatever is best for my little guys in the QT.

Ok so I will try and find the ammonia test tomorrow that you recommend.

I added some more Prime today bc I did a water change in there to lower the ammonia level. How often am I supposed to use it? I use very little like 5ml for the 10G. Is it possible to overdose the tank with that?

No more water changes in the QT? Is that bc the Prime is taking care of everything that is harmful.

Also what do I do to the DT to get the PH down if its still high tomorrow?

You're very welcome

In no particular order...
You will probably have to order the kit online. I've only seen it once in a LFS and that was a long time ago.

I'd still change the water in the QT daily until you move the fish out of there...good 50% water changes. (point being that if your water in a QT is supposed to be pristine, it should NOT matter how large the water changes are, they can't hurt if you are exchanging perfect water for perfect water that is a little dirty)

If you change 50% of the water then you'd add a 50% dosage of prime (as related to the gallons you changed, and yes you can overdose anything...)

IMO the ONLY thing you want to do to reduce the PH in the DT is water changes. Anything from 8.0 - 8.4 is ok

IMO - Nothing wrong with API kits tho many will tell you otherwise. I've been using them for years and have never found them to be inaccurate.
For ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, PH..they are quite accurate. You will want other kits among the bigger names like Sailfert & Elos for your Ca, Alk & Mg.

I do agree that all fish should be QT'd but 2 weeks, maybe 3 should be enough to see if they have any illness or issues. You might want to totally cycle the QT before you get any further fish.

Corals (yup, you have those correct ) are not often QT'd by most reefers. If you think we're bad with wanting to see our new fish in our tanks immediately, don't get between a reefer and his/her hot new coral..they ARE going straight into the tank (after the appropriate dip of course!)

Did I miss anything? :splitspin

 

[Marcellina]

Oh ok it was too good to be true <sigh>

What about my question about the PH in the DT? If its high tomorrow what is the best way to get it down? I did a water change yesterday already not sure if I can do another one so soon?

 

[KathyC]

Oh ok it was too good to be true <sigh>

What about my question about the PH in the DT? If its high tomorrow what is the best way to get it down? I did a water change yesterday already not sure if I can do another one so soon?

..ah Marcellina, it's always too good to be true..lol

Covered that one too (post # 17)
Yup, a water change is the only good way to do it where it won't fluctuate on you.
Have to ask, why do you think it woudn't be a good idea to do another water change so soon?

 

[Marcellina]

I personally think it would be good to neutralize anything going wrong with the tank. But I am a newbie and I only asked bc someone helping me at the local fish store told me I shouldnt be doing any water changes to my DT while its cycling and that I should not change water until its done cycling. His reasoning was that I was removing bacteria and that now it has to multiply even more and cause my levels to spike again.

I take everything with a grain of salt from this LFS bc a few days ago I took my water to be tested by them and they said everything was perfect except for the nitrite (just confirming my own home tests) I said that great so my cycle is nearing the end. Then he was telling me to go to the supermarket and get a raw shrimp or clam or scallop and throw it in my DT to decompose so my other levels would get higher. I told him they already peaked and he insisted that I should still throw in the raw fish all this bc I didnt want to cycle with live fish a pair of black and white damsels that he was trying to sell me. I thought that the LS and LR were all I needed to help me cycle.

 

[KathyC]

You are correct.

I will say that a tank does need to be fed while it is cycling - after all you are trying to grow bacteria in there and bacteria does need to eat. It can be done with a tiny pinch - every few days - of flake food.

Don't let me get on my soapbox on people who suggest a tank should be cycled with live fish...I have more than a few suggestions for them...:irked:

Anyway...the great majority of the bacteria in your tank that you are encouraging to grow is not in the water column - it is on the surfaces of the tank, the glass, rock, sand, everywhere..but little of it is actually freely swimming around in the water. You can safely change the water at this point, especially since your DT is less toxic than your QT
Just get the PH down with a water change first.
(btw - bacteria can double in it's volume inside of 2 days..., don't worry too much about it)

 

[tomtoothdoc]

i've just read this now.... it's very nice of you, kathyc, to hold her hand thru this. kudos to no condescending comments many other would have attacked her with. that 's a true spirit/character of a good reefer. so thank you kathyc.

marcellina, you're in good hands. with all the info. flying around, it may make your head spin a little bit. take deep calming breaths. don't panic, things will work out.

i would suggest reading books like these:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1890087025/?tag=reefs04-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1890087521/?tag=reefs04-20

after you've read the above books, hopefully the tank would be fully cycled assuming you read them a couple of times (like 4 weeks or so) then you can use these to help with fish and corals/inverts selections.....the fun part, imo:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1890087386/?tag=reefs04-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1890087661/?tag=reefs04-20

an odd suggestion this may sound but don't buy any livestock until you can remember their scientific names. this little exercise will help ensure that you have read about their needs and whether or not it's a good idea for you to purchase one. every reefer at one time or another had what i would call the "pretty fish/corals syndrome", it's a condition in a reefer's brain that will tug on the emotion side to buy it because it's the prettiest thing you've ever seen and if you don't buy it now someone else will snatched it up or it will die in the store's tank and you can provide a better condition in your tank. (speaking from personal experience....there is no cure.....even after years of reefing, just 4 weeks ago, i bought a difficult to impossible to keep alive invert, a red feather star-crinoidea species, "the most beautiful invert these eyes have ever seen".....lol).

little things to add, don't open the lights for the qt that you've ordered and return it. it is not really adequate for the corals, especially the kinds of lps (large polyp stony) corals you already have. acans and frogspawns are lps's, they have hard skeleton. imo that light is barely enough even for just mushrooms. imo, you're better off without any light on top of the qt. room light/lamp for you to see the fish is enough. fish don't need light, actually you want to turn off the (tank)lights when a new fish is added. and as kathyc said most reefer don't qt the corals. they "dip" with various solutions to rid off pest, etc. don't worry about that for now since you won't be adding anything for at least 4 weeks...RIGHT?

are the fish and corals still in the qt? what light do you have on there?

 

[Marcellina]

Thanks Tom. I will check those books out.

I have the light that came with the tank, its an old falling apart flourescent Fresh Water tank light. That was the main reason I bought the other one. It was actually recommended to me as an inexpensive temporary light for the zoas, frogspawn and ocellaris etc. Dont the corals need light to feed?

I think that Kathyc was recommending that I get my PH down in my DT and then acclimate my livestock and place them in there since the water quality is better in the DT than the QT.

BOy have I learned a lesson the hard way. In the future I will keep a sponge or better yet the biowheel from my QT filter in my DT to colonize bacteria then put it in the QT when I need it along with some water from the DT as well.

I really thought it was possible to maintain and uncycled sterile QT I have to find the article I read it in.

Ok I need to go to bed now!

Nite all.

Thanks again

 

[tomtoothdoc]

Thanks Tom. I will check those books out.

I have the light that came with the tank, its an old falling apart flourescent Fresh Water tank light. That was the main reason I bought the other one. It was actually recommended to me as an inexpensive temporary light for the zoas, frogspawn and ocellaris etc. Dont the corals need light to feed?
The light I ordered for the QT will arrive tomorrow its a 20" Coralife Saltwater ES53000 Aqualight 1X28 Watt Single Bulb Compact i'm a little confused. which lightfixture and how many bulbs(total wattage) are the corals under now? i thought yore're ordering the 28 watt light for the qt??

I think that Kathyc was recommending that I get my PH down in my DT and then acclimate my livestock and place them in there since the water quality is better in the DT than the QT. yes, agreed

BOy have I learned a lesson the hard way. In the future I will keep a sponge or better yet the biowheel from my QT filter in my DT to colonize bacteria then put it in the QT when I need it along with some water from the DT as well. see...we're learning...that's what's it all about.

I really thought it was possible to maintain and uncycled sterile QT I have to find the article I read it in. i would like to see that as well!!!

Ok I need to go to bed now!

Nite all. nite..nite.., tom

Thanks again

t

 

[Marcellina]

Goodmorning Tom,

The light that the corals and fish are under right now is a single bulb Radionic 15 w that is on its way out. Either end of the bulb is dull and the center is the only part that is emiting any kind of light. The white plastic that is in the hood is all cracked and crumbling as well. I needed another light fixture and a different kind of bulb for the QT. I dont have too much to spend on the QT since I want it to be a temporary thing to use as needed. THe light I should get today (I should have gotten it over a week ago it was delayed) is the: 20" Coralife Saltwater ES53000 Aqualight 1X28 Watt Single Bulb Compact

I am definitely going to look for that article. It listed 3 different types of QT.

 

[kisersoze]

its nice to have one

 

[Marcellina]

Ok i cant find that article yet. I am going through my browser history of last week. Wow I cant believe how many sites I visited is all I can say.

I did the water change yesterday in the DT. After doing so the PH was reading 7.8 I had a buffer to raise the PH and I put half the recommended amount and it still reads 7.8 this morning - it says to give it 24 hours so tonight I should know if it worked. I dont like puttin chemicals in the tank, and I put as little as possible if I have not other choice.

Good news! This morning the DT levels are all 0!
THe SG is 1.026 the same as the QT. The temps are the same as well. I am just waiting to make sure the PH went up a little.

All levels are 0 so that means that I am done with the cycling in the DT correct? I would love to wait a few days even longer if possible if the QT would hold up.

The fisha nd coral are looking great in there now. The frogspawn opened up in all its glory, the finger leather is straight, not all the zoas are opened but they seem more erect. The mushrooms are even bigger, didnt think that was possible. I have the PRIME in there so I cant test the Ammonia or Nitrate but it must be working and they are not getting the toxicity of them.

I should still move them in the DT as soon as I get the PH the same right?

 

[masterswimmer]

Marcellina, congrats. It seems things are beginning to turn in the right direction for you. Your cycle does appear to be complete. I would still put a pinch of food in their for the bacteria to have something to break down. The number of bacterial colonies will continually adjust to the load you have in the tank. So if you add fish, you want to do that slowly, because the addition of the new inhabitant will increase the waste produced and therefore require your bacteria colonies to work harder to process this additional waste. This will increase the numbers of bacteria colonies. Therefore, with no fish in there, the colonies will actually reduce themselves without anything to feed on. That's why I'm suggesting to add the pinch of food every couple of days. You want the bacteria colonies to remain high in numbers and alive.

Best of luck,
Russ

 

[Marcellina]

Marcellina, congrats. I would still put a pinch of food in their for the bacteria to have something to break down.

Thanks for that advice Russ, I just put a tiny pinch in there.

The PH is the same in the DT and the QT. I think since the frags and two fish are doing ok in the QT I will wait until Sat morning to acclimate some frags and move them to the DT. Is that wise move or should I just move some in there aready? I dont want to do them all at once. I was thinking to put the fish in last, one at a time bc I think their bioload would be too much to introduce together, right?

 

[masterswimmer]

I'm not sure how many fish you've got. Refresh my memory on the # of fish and the size of the tank. FYI, corals don't add any measureable bioload to the system. I would add fish if the systems cycle is complete.

R

 

[KathyC]

I'm not sure how many fish you've got. Refresh my memory on the # of fish and the size of the tank. FYI, corals don't add any measureable bioload to the system. I would add fish if the systems cycle is complete.

R

Just 2 clowns Russ in a 29g Biocube. She should be fine to move them all over at this point with the temp, SG and Ph matching.. ya think?

I'd do a water change a couple of days after you move the fish since you can;t measure the ammonia. Keep your eye in the Nitrites and definitely do a change if that rises.

Marcellina - you mentioned using something to lower the PH..what was it?

 

[Marcellina]

Oh cool! I will move them all over on Saturday then. I only have the two small clownfish.

KathyC I just did a water change to LOWER the PH but then it went too low - 7.8

I used Kent Superbuffer-dKH to raise it up. I used half of what they said to use and it was perfect. I like to always use less bc its easier to put more than to take away.

Is that ok? I didnt know of a natural way to raise the PH.

 

[KathyC]

Wait until the PH levels off to move the fish, and best not to add anything in the meantime.

Pretty much anything you pour out of a bottle is only going to temporarily adjust whatever level it's meant to adjust.

Good things only happen slowly. Bad things happen quickly in reefing

A water change or 2 on the QT should bring it into line with the PH in the DT..aim for that route to make them match..IMO.

 

[Marcellina]

Oh I didnt even think to lower the ph in the qt. I thought 7.8 was too low for a reef tank? thats why I added the buffer to raise it. I think I added less than 1/4 tsp.

 

[KathyC]

Is this the same tank that was 8.4- 8.8 the other day?? You did a water change and what was the reading then? Then you tried to lower it and with 1/4 tspn of the powder and it dropped to 7.8? What was the suggested dose to lower it..and by how much?

Let it sit until Sat and retest the PH. If it''s too low, do a water change, if it's too high..do a water change.
Can you recheck the PH of your newly made SW and post it?

Are you adding anything to adjust the Alk in this tank?? The PH should not be fluctuating this much, if so, way too unstable to put the fish in it.
If you are using the same soruce from botht he QT and the DT- the parameters shouldn't be that far off.
Whatever you do, don't do anything but water changes to the tank with the fish in it. A PH swing like that will kill them for sure

 

[Marcellina]

Yes its the same tank, it was the 29 G DT that was 8.4-8.8

I did about 1/3 water change and then when I checked the ph it was 7.8 My QT is 8.4 and that is a good level right?

I didnt want to mess with the QT so I used the buffer to raise the ph on the DT. The directions say 1 tsp per 20-30 G. I used only 1/4 tsp( a little rounded on top so a little more than 1/4)

The reading this morning it was 7.8-8.0 but 24 hours hadnt passed yet, the instructions say to test after 24 hours . I tested a few hours ago and its 8.4. I hope it stays at that. I will retest in the morning.

I keep making the saltwater for both tanks as I need it, I am using 4.5 gallon jugs to make it. I test it to make sure the SG is the same but havent tested the ph.