Elliminating Nitrates and Cynobacteria

[Webo]

I have had a 100 gallon reef tank with a 50 gallon sump and refugium for about 2 years. the main display tank houses LPS, SPS, Soft corals as well as some reef fish. The main readings have generally been good (PH 8.3; Calcium 430 to 440; Alk 11dkh; 0 phosphates). I have an oversized Protein Skimmer (oversized for my tank); a phosphate reactor; and live rock and sand in the refugium. But my nitrate levels have generally been between 5 and 10. I do 18 gallon weekly water changes, but I can't seem to get my nitrates down to 0. I also have increasing build up of Cynobacteria in my refugium. I previously had cyno in the main tank, but I got rid of that about 2 to 3 months ago by skimming out the substrate in the display tank. I don't overfeed my fish.

Any thoughts on how to get nitrates down to 0 and get rid of the red slime algae in the refugium. I was thinking of adding more live rock to the sump and adding calaupa. I have chetomorpha in the refugium, but the red slime is overtaking it and hasn't been doing much to get rid of the nitrates.

 

[Pedro Nuno Ferreira]

Any thoughts on how to get nitrates down to 0 and get rid of the red slime algae in the refugium. I was thinking of adding more live rock to the sump and adding calaupa. I have chetomorpha in the refugium, but the red slime is overtaking it and hasn't been doing much to get rid of the nitrates.

Yes
You can either use Tridacnas in your main display or live oysters in your refugium as these will feed quite fast on the nitrates. Some more here about their capacity as natural filters

Filters

• Oysters purify the Chesapeake Bay as they filter the water for their food. An adult oyster can filter as much as 60 gallons of water a day.
• Sediment and nutrients (chiefly nitrogen) cause problems in Bay waters. Oysters filter these pollutants by either consuming them or shape them into small packets, which are deposited on the bottom where they are not harmful.
• The oysters in the Bay could once filter a volume of water equal to that of the entire Bay (about 19 trillion gallons) in a week. Today, it would take the remaining Bay oysters more than a year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_feeder
Bivalves

External images Movie clip of siphon feeding Bivalves are aquatic molluscs which have two-part shells. Typically both shells (or valves) are symmetrical along the hinge line. The class has 30,000 species, including scallops, clams, oysters and mussels. Most bivalves are filter feeders (although some have taken up scavenging and predation), extracting organic matter from the sea in which they live. Nephridia, the shell fish version of kidneys, remove the waste material. Buried bivalves feed by extending a siphon to the surface.
As an example, oysters draw water in over their gills through the beating of cilia. Suspended food (phytoplankton, zooplankton, algae and other water-borne nutrients and particles) are trapped in the mucus of a gill, and from there are transported to the mouth, where they are eaten, digested and expelled as feces or pseudofeces. Each oyster filters up to five litres of water per hour. Scientists believe that the Chesapeake Bay's once-flourishing oyster population historically filtered the estuary's entire water volume of excess nutrients every three or four days. Today that process would take almost a year,[7] and sediment, nutrients, and algae can cause problems in local waters. Oysters filter these pollutants, and either eat them or shape them into small packets that are deposited on the bottom where they are harmless.

Some more here about oysters as filters and some more and the Chesapeak bay program and some more

Tridacna as nitrate filters

They are also filter feeders and will feed on dissolved nutrients in the water column. They take up ammonia and nitrates and should do ok in aquariums with normal nitrate levels (less than 20ppm).

and some more from Liveaquaria for beginners

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Benefits to your aquarium[/FONT]
Besides their beauty, clams provide another important benefit to a salt-water aquarium: biological filtration. Their superior filtering capabilities offer added stability and nutrient control in a closed aquarium system. Excess nutrients lead to problems with low pH, algae, and cyanobacteria blooms - general poor water conditions that ultimately affect the health of all inhabitants within the aquarium. Clams constantly filter nutrients such as ammonia and nitrate from the water thereby reducing the biological load and lowering the overall nitrate level in the aquarium, improving water conditions.

Do remember though that these clams do require quite stable water parameters. From your description it looks that you will be able to keep stable water parameters.
Tridacnas are tropical reef inhabitants, As for the oysters our experience over here tells us that they do withstand warmer waters and some of us use them for the purpose of nitrate filtering in our tanks. For safety reasons, I am ore inclined to use Tridacnas.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno ;-)

 

[h2o]

I had the same problem with cano in my refugium, 50 gal . It had not enough flow in it so i added a small powersweep to increase the flow, and after that all the cayno disapeard after two weeks... Nitrate, cant help u i got the samething 5-10

 

[Webo]

I had the same problem with cano in my refugium, 50 gal . It had not enough flow in it so i added a small powersweep to increase the flow, and after that all the cayno disapeard after two weeks... Nitrate, cant help u i got the samething 5-10

I was thinking of taking some of the live rock out of the refugium portion of the sump (where it is lighted), and put it in the other non-lit portion of the sump. Also, I have a deep sand bed in the refugium, should I take some of that out as well? I realize there is a benefit for the living organisms with the deep sand bed, but maybe i can Halve it?

 

[NYreefNoob]

how old are your bulbs ? what type of lighting ? how much flow and what are you using ? using bioballs ? brand and size of skimmer, ratings really mean nothing. how long before you do wc do you mix water ? how many fish and what species, alot of simple answer's what do you feed ? how much ? ro-di water ? do you rinse frozen foods ? alot of threads on here

 

[Webo]

how old are your bulbs ? what type of lighting ? how much flow and what are you using ? using bioballs ? brand and size of skimmer, ratings really mean nothing. how long before you do wc do you mix water ? how many fish and what species, alot of simple answer's what do you feed ? how much ? ro-di water ? do you rinse frozen foods ? alot of threads on here

Cyno Bacteria in refugium only; new T-5's (10,000k & actinic) over refugium;flow comes from powerhead in sump pumping through spray bar at top of refugium (Rio 1700); plus separate power head in refugium for circulation; no bio balls; live rock and Kent marine biosediment (thick layer) for substrate in refugium; AquaC EV 240 Protein skimmer; weekly water changes 18 gallons; replacement salt water is made up with RO water each week - aerated and circulated with powerhead in separate vat; 3 small to med tangs; remaining fish (6) are small reef fish (1 clown goby; 1 red head goby; sunburst anthias; lyretail anthias; sunrise dottyback; solar fairy wrasse); I do not rinse frozen foods (how do you do that?).

 

[Pedro Nuno Ferreira]

I do not rinse frozen foods (how do you do that?).

Hi
this is how I rinse frozen foods when needed

You either run water through it or simply wait for it to defrost and then you run some RO water through it just to better rinse the food, and its ready to feed the fish.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno;-)

 

[Keith P]

Pedro, where did you get that rinsing box? Is it a cooking supply?

I use a small cup. I fill it with ro, drain, refill, & drain. I don't think my method works too well. (And I also have cyano )

 

[NYreefNoob]

brine shrimp net works well also

 

[Pedro Nuno Ferreira]

Pedro, where did you get that rinsing box? Is it a cooking supply?

I use a small cup. I fill it with ro, drain, refill, & drain. I don't think my method works too well. (And I also have cyano )

Its a Brine Shrimp net from Hobby that I bought some 10 or more years ago. It was supplied in a box with four box nets with different mesh size, I presently have two and lost the other two (or don't remember where I left them). I have a video of the rinsing operation, but I cant put the link here because reefforum is down for vBulletin last version upgrading operations, so within one week or so, I shall be able to put the link here.
Please do remember that in some cases the residue of the frozen food is actually food for organisms such as Tridacnas that need some amount of nitrates dissolved to better thrive, so rinsing is wise and I do it some times but I scarcely feed frozen foods and the ones I mostly use are from Ocean nutrition which have a binding gel. Any way for tanks that have a heavy biological load of fishes, high nitrate levels, no DSB, no refugium, no clam filters, as mentioned above in my post, and frozen foods are used mostly and frequently, it is advisable to rinse the frozen foods.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno ;-)

 

[18oreefer]

I was thinking of taking some of the live rock out of the refugium portion of the sump (where it is lighted), and put it in the other non-lit portion of the sump. Also, I have a deep sand bed in the refugium, should I take some of that out as well? I realize there is a benefit for the living organisms with the deep sand bed, but maybe i can Halve it?

The deep sand bed will help your nitrates as long as you dont disturb it. It provides an anerobic envrionment for anerobic bacteria to live. The anerobic bacteria are the ones that process nitrate into nitrogen gas. Try dosing vodka. Vodka is a complex sugar energy source for anerobic bacteria and it will promote a population growth of this bacteria. Dont clean your deep sand bed becasue it will introduce o2 to it and kill the anerobic bacteria. If that doenst hel you could always look into a denitrator (man i sound like a whore for these things). I have one with a huge fish population and very few water changes. My nitrates are always 0. Good luck.

 

[Pedro Nuno Ferreira]

Pedro, where did you get that rinsing box? Is it a cooking supply?

I use a small cup. I fill it with ro, drain, refill, & drain. I don't think my method works too well. (And I also have cyano )

Hi
Now that Reefforum.net is online aggain here is the video showing how I rinse frozen food if needed, in this case it was krill Pacifica

Rinsing Frozen Krill Pacifica

Cheers
Pedro Nuno;-)

 

[KathyC]

You can also thaw out frozen mysis in a cup with tank water, and then dump it in a regular fish net, squeeze out the excess, rinse again with either tank or RO water, squeeze and then feed.

Nice rinse box there Pedro

 

[Pedro Nuno Ferreira]

You can also thaw out frozen mysis in a cup with tank water, and then dump it in a regular fish net, squeeze out the excess, rinse again with either tank or RO water, squeeze and then feed.

Nice rinse box there Pedro

Hi KantyC

Actually it is an artemia sieve, but I use it as well as rinse box:tongue1:

Artemia sieve by Hobby

Cheers
Pedro Nuno;-)

 

[DHaut]

Is changing more water an option?

 

[Pedro Nuno Ferreira]

Is changing more water an option?

It can be, still it might not be enough if for instance you have a huge load of fish or just a few fish only they are huge carnivores...Basically it has to do with the biological load you house in your tank, so changing more water could not be sufficient.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno;-)

 

[DHaut]

It can be, still it might not be enough if for instance you have a huge load of fish or just a few fish only they are huge carnivores...Basically it has to do with the biological load you house in your tank, so changing more water could not be sufficient.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno;-)

Agreed - it's certainly only treating the symptoms. But if you're going to stick with your bioload and not remove anything, changing more water is the only way I know of to get those nitrates down - especially if you're already doing everything else you can (prot. skimmer, fuge w/ macro, watching out for detritus traps, etc.). If nothing else, more water will help get the microalgae under control while you work on the other things.

 

[DHaut]

Also, try buying a 6500k bulb from a hardware store (regular screw in - any clamp-on lamp will work) and using that on the chaeto. Natural sunlight works wonders on that stuff.

 

[18oreefer]

A denitrator will lower your nitrates and keep them low. You can buy one from aquaripure or there a DIY thread on how to build one. They do work and its been over a month since i last did a water change and i have 0 for nitrates because i run 1.

 

[Thatguy96]

The deep sand bed will help your nitrates as long as you dont disturb it. It provides an anerobic envrionment for anerobic bacteria to live. The anerobic bacteria are the ones that process nitrate into nitrogen gas. Try dosing vodka. Vodka is a complex sugar energy source for anerobic bacteria and it will promote a population growth of this bacteria. Dont clean your deep sand bed becasue it will introduce o2 to it and kill the anerobic bacteria. If that doenst hel you could always look into a denitrator (man i sound like a whore for these things). I have one with a huge fish population and very few water changes. My nitrates are always 0. Good luck.

You are ha ha but keep bringing it up because I am thinking about getting one soon (Once my roommate, shows some initiative in helping me with that tank when I am not around!)