Elliminating Nitrates and Cynobacteria

[Pedro Nuno Ferreira]

Agreed - it's certainly only treating the symptoms. But if you're going to stick with your bioload and not remove anything, changing more water is the only way I know of to get those nitrates down - especially if you're already doing everything else you can (prot. skimmer, fuge w/ macro, watching out for detritus traps, etc.). If nothing else, more water will help get the microalgae under control while you work on the other things.

Still despite the many things you mention above that can in fact be done to reduce/eliminate nitrates, there is one more besides de denitrator which very few people do but works...please read my post in this thread, post n? 2.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno;-)

 

[Thatguy96]

Pedro defiantly try more flow and less feeding. Thats what helped me out with the Cyno, Nitrates are a lot better since I used that practice, but not 0

 

[Pedro Nuno Ferreira]

Pedro defiantly try more flow and less feeding. Thats what helped me out with the Cyno, Nitrates are a lot better since I used that practice, but not 0

In your case it worked significantly, very much probably because you had your water flow not adequately adjusted to your system as well as its bio load and you were probalby being "more than generous" feeding, although not thinking you were being "generous", but that might not be the case in this situation or others and in your case you can still improve.
Just increasing the flow without analysing its impact on the housed animals may damage some sessile animals and deprive others of the needed nutrients that exist in the water column, and I've seen this to often, also if you do not have a good export means like and efficient skimmer as well as regular water changes or filter feeders like Tridacnas and/or algae filters and/or a DSB, it might not work or be very unreliable, also reducing the food will cause the fish to starve in many cases, especially the anthias, a situation that I've seen to often in which case I tell the person the bad thing being done. Treating the symptoms will not solve the problem. One has to adjust the system to its bio load requirements and being a closed system things take huge proportions very fast and people wonder why this or that does not work even if the manufacturer said it would for that volume of water, or someone did this or that, etc...the only thing the manufacturer many times forget is to tell the bioload in which the product is effective:shhh:. Each case is case, some people are "generous" in feeding time but they believe they are sacracely feeding......I prefer to analyse and ajust progressively case by case.
The filter feeders like Tridacna or Oysters is a possibility quite effective and not so expensive when compared to some equiment costs, this said those equipents can be used but before sepending more money on new and more powerfull pumps, or denitrators, or whatever, lets analyse the system and progressivley act, preferably starting by natural, less laborious and less expensive methods. Its my suggestion.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno;-)

 

[Thatguy96]

Thanx Pedro I will look into the Oysters. Where can I get them and Parm do they flourish in.

 

[Pedro Nuno Ferreira]

Thanx Pedro I will look into the Oysters. Where can I get them and Parm do they flourish in.

If you really want to have a go with clams and have no experience with them, I suggest you start with a Tridacna derasa, as they are good possibilities as nitrate filters, they are hardy, affordable, and will add more beauty to your tank assuming that in fact you can house them in your main display as the fish living there will not poke on it. As far as oysters are concerned please read Native Oysters and this and this and this will help you to better understand how a oyster operates. Although your local oysters extend from Canada to the Caribbean, the oyster species from the Gulf of Mexico are used to warmer waters, so they could be a better possibility for a tropical reef system.
I suggest you start with a Tridacna dersa or two and observe the result some time after, then you might add another one and so on. Take your time and don't expect miracles immediately. Be sure that presently you have a stabilized system as that will be very important for the well being of the clams. Clams can withstand a wide range of parameters, at least some species, but they do not tolerate well sudden variations, shifts, namely the ones caused by an unstable system like a system that has been running for less than 4, 6 or 12 months, or a system that is constantly receiving new fish, or other animals and in consequence the water parameters swing drastically...
As you mention, you have low nitrate levels, this might help you to to lower them even further. Do remember always that establishing a balance is many times more important that achieving zero readings or the normal recommended readings for water parameters. Animals have a wide capacity to adapt to a wide range of parameters provide this is done slowly, so although recommendable and desirable, correct water parameters must be achieved by progressive balance adjustment. I've seen to often people that are in a hurry to adjust parameters because the ones they have are not by the book, and then they have problems and don't understand why since the new parameters are the correct ones...well take the example of someone smoking, if that someone is deprived immediately of the smoke intake its organism was used to, and although being a good thing for the overall health, the organism will produce a significant reaction to the lack of the poison it had been accustomed to, and the person will go through some bad moments and could fail to quit smoking, its a matter of will power, time of habituation, etc...On the other hand if the approach is done by progressively reducing the amount of smoke intake or replace by another less harming substance, then the organism will progressively adapt and adjust up to the moment it becomes free of that need that was not good for its well being.
Don't rush, especially with clams!

Cheers
Pedro Nuno;-)

 

[DHaut]

Tridacnas aren't exactly the easiest creature to keep. They require very high calcium levels that will most likely require dosing if kept in large numbers. They require high lighting. The are sensitive to even the slightest water quality shift. They may reduce nitrates some, but their export capabilities might not outweigh the care requirements. I've had no experience with Oysters so I can't speak to them. I respect what you're saying Pedro, but I still think that if you're going to have a system with a high bioload, the easiest means of nutrient export is a water change (what's 5 more gallons added to 18 anyways? Not much). You take out as much as you have to to get the nitrates down to acceptable levels and to keep them there.

 

[Pedro Nuno Ferreira]

Tridacnas aren't exactly the easiest creature to keep. They require very high calcium levels that will most likely require dosing if kept in large numbers. They require high lighting. The are sensitive to even the slightest water quality shift. They may reduce nitrates some, but their export capabilities might not outweigh the care requirements. I've had no experience with Oysters so I can't speak to them. I respect what you're saying Pedro, but I still think that if you're going to have a system with a high bioload, the easiest means of nutrient export is a water change (what's 5 more gallons added to 18 anyways? Not much). You take out as much as you have to to get the nitrates down to acceptable levels and to keep them there.

Hi
I wrote that clams do not tolerate well sudden water parameter swings, so in that and if they are to be considered the system must be stable as I wrote. It is a possibility to consider, a possible addition to others already mentioned. In low water volumes such as the one you mention, the water changes may in fact be more easy but time consuming and money consuming and water parameters could swing and shift more drastically, especially if one insists in maintaining a hig bio load despite the low volume for it to live in. In systems holding lager volumes of water, the water changes can be enormous so solutions as the clams can be a less demanding and more affordable possibility.
Again this is a suggestion and no matter how good it can be, each case is a case and the person must do the approach with which it feels more comfortable so long as it produces the wanted result.
Looking into the 18 gallon volume you mention, before anything I would recommend to lower the bio-load to one more coherent with the volume of water, space and means available, at least if not for anything more, if by any chance a routine of maintenance that kept things going was by some reason not fulfilled, the system would hold on better until action was taken, otherwise it might not hold on so good if not attended in the routine that it needed....in short, adjust to the means available in such a way that you can enjoy your system and not be a slave to it...we live with marine reef systems to enjoy them and learn (at least I do) not for marine reef systems or there will be no joy in keeping them. Take my example, I have a 180 gallon tank (sump and refugium included) and I use NSW which as to be collected locally, if this was back breaking due to the amount collected or number of times needed to collect, it would not be fun, so I prefer to have less fish (I sold more than half I had recently) than to have a larger system or have to collect more NSW to keep at pace with the needs in such a condition in the current system I have. I might consider a large system in future but having more time an will to devote to it

...its adapting things to fit your means and needs.
If you feel the water changes are the best approach to you, then please go for it...as long as your happy and achieve good results with that, then I think we all are happy for you

Cheers
Pedro Nuno;-)

 

[Simon Garratt]

I couldnt agree more with much of what Pedro has written.

Not wanting to teach anybody to suck eggs, but this is a help file i wrote for another forum (i hope its ok to cross link) that delves into core No3 control within a closed reef environment and some basic steps that can help solve issues with little to no effort other than simply understanding how it all falls together and what minimal changes you can make that have far wider ranging results over the long term.

Click here

regards

Simon.

 

[DHaut]

Pedro - looks like you posted your second post as I was posting mine. I got the 18g from the OP who says they do an 18g a week change. I agree that the best way is to lower the bioload that's causing the problem in the first place. I'm not knocking clams - I think they are beautiful additions to the tank. If you can keep multiple ones alive and provide the right environment for them (they are living animals and every bit as interesting as fish are, to me - not just nutrient exporters) then go for it. To the OP, if you're keeping SPS, you should be able to do clams as well. Just know that they're going to suck up your calcium as they grow. If the clams don't seem to work and you don't want to increase water changes, you could always take one of the tangs out - that should drastically drop the bioload of the tank.

 

[greggnyce]

+1 changing the light over your cheato to a home depot 6500K. I have one with the clip on reflector over my fuge and the cheato grows like crazy.