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emmanuel

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has anyone had back surgery
i have herniated discs L4L5 L5S1 and the pain is not going away chiropractors have not helped last year physical therapy for 3 months didn't do much and i don't want to be taking pain killers for the rest of my life
 

cowfish

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Try "pain management" before surgery. Most physicians and nurses I know told me back surgeries have limited success and there's no guarantee you'll get rid of the pain. The surgery should be a last resort.
 

DrCooper

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I have the same exact injury. I had an epidural which helped and now i do core strengthening and watch how i use my back and bend my body. I would stay away from surgery if possible. I hate to say this cause when people said it to me I would wanna kill them but my injury has much to do with stress so I have been learning new ways to deal with the stress in my life.
I also read a few of the books by Dr. Sarno which are interesting.
 

NYreefNoob

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friend did it and she regrets it, in worse pain now then was before, if interested there is a chiroprater by me that does a living well plan, teach's proper stretch's exercise's and ect
 

SPotter

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My opinion is stay as far away as possible form a chiropractor!

+1 on staying away from the chiropractors. I had the same herniations and had surgery 14 yrs ago where the discs were shaved. I haven't had a problem since. Every situation is different and everyones recovery is different. I do agree on seeing a pain specialist. There's a procedure called joint visette (sp is wrong I'm sure) and I know two people that have had it done and are totally pain free.


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emmanuel

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I have the same exact injury. I had an epidural which helped and now i do core strengthening and watch how i use my back and bend my body. I would stay away from surgery if possible. I hate to say this cause when people said it to me I would wanna kill them but my injury has much to do with stress so I have been learning new ways to deal with the stress in my life.
I also read a few of the books by Dr. Sarno which are interesting.
thats interesting when I get stressed out my back hurts more especially in the winter dont know if its the weather or just that I cant take long rides on my bike that is my #1 form of relief from stress
I did go to a chiropractor who promised in a couple of weeks he'd make me much better - I stopped going with no improvement
I have managed to stay away from the painkillers over the years and have many expired hydrocodine (generic for vicodin) but started taking them once every other day though they dont do much for the pain .

Jaftica do you know the name of the procedure how long ago did you do it and how long for recovery?

thank you all for you replies
 

jaa1456

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I have the same exact injuries you have, It happened on 4/13/09. You noticed I say I'm retired and that is not a lie. The work I did prior to thw injury I will never be able to do again. The pain in the first month was unbearable and the Doc said I had the worst Herniated L5 he had ever seen in 20 years. Meaning over 70 percent of the disc was in the nerves, a normal herniation is about 5 - 10%. I had 3 root blocks so far, they helped but they wear off. I'm still out of work and most likely never returning to work. I spoke to about 30 people that had the operation from 10 years ago up to recent. They all regreted ever having the surgery. I have done almost a years worth of physical therapy, Now they are trying acupuncture. 3 times a week for 20 minutes a session. Still no change in the pain. Chiropractors are no good for this injury as they can't do anything for the disc. I tried the chiropractor and he made it worse. The MRI after the chiropractor showed more damage. I don't think I did much damage sitting on the couch, So I figure it was from the chiropractor. As of to date I now have 17 DR.s not including the chiropractor. Can you walk with on your heels with your toes pointed up without either foot dropping?
 

jaa1456

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If your foot doesn't drop down, then you might get luck and your body will heal itself, All the DR.s I have seen have told me that some people with less herniations will heal up by themselves. The piece of disc will break off and the body will break down. Not saying this will happen for you because it sure hasn't happened to me. 2 years later I still have shooting pain in my left arch of my foot, my entire leg goes numb from time to time, makes my hamstring cramp up and my left knee feels like its gonna rip through my skin, not everyday but most of the time. And my back always feels like it is on fire. It has gotten better though.
 

tentacles

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As others have said, you should definitely see a pain management specialist. I've had disc problems, nerve disfunction and arthritis for a few years, and last year I almost had to leave school for the semester because I was constantly in so much unbearable pain. Going to the chiro only helped for the hour after I went, my primary physician's treatment (besides painkillers) didn't help, and I was in too much pain to do anything other than get soft tissue manipulation and stim at PT. After seeing the specialist, he stared me on a different treatment approach, and it has worked wonders. I can so everyday things now (climb stairs, light exercise, bend down to pick things up, lift items over 5lbs., etc). I still have pain, but it's nowhere near as debilitating. Right now we're discussing a series of trigger point injections to get the rest of the pain under control- much less serious than surgery, though you do have to be anaesthetised.
 

nautilus

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Pain. The only way our body could communicate and tell us that something is wrong and needs our attention before it gets worst.
Pain is a cycle, that must be stopped or cut at any level to have temporary or long term relief.

Injury /damage to tissue -> cellular release of chemical -> blood vessels constrics, also muscles tighens or goes to spasm as a protective mechanism of our body to prevent further injury, which in long term may decrease supply of oxygen and nutrients to cells -> further cellular damage -> further pain, and cyle starts again. The reason that in time, pain becomes more severe due to cascading effect of this cycle.
Temporary relief if we just "block" the pain and DID NOT deal with the ROOT CAUSE of the injury or problem. Medications just "stuns" the progression of the problem or "numbs" our sensation of pain. Once medications have worn out, pain exists again and we need more dose of these medications. Stretching, Strengthening as well as Mechanical Traction if needed, effectively complements these Injections.

There are many ways to treat back pain , depending on root cause, level of injury and severity of the problem.
Physical Therapy is one of the most conservative one if done by a properly trained and properly equipped, not to mention desire for public service. That said, not all PT is the same. They should utilize conventional Heat and Electrical Stimulators, more advanced Ultrasound (also, Phonophoresis-Driving of cream based pain medication trhough ultrasonic waves) and more advanced LASER therapy to facilitate healing process. Then proper stretching and of course, Intermittent Traction machine. Your therapist should employ evrything mentioned above for moderate to severe back pain (considering you don't have fused or unstable spine).
Oriental based Acupuncture tends to release Endorphin, which is our own pain mediating chemical in the body ( Yes, our own body has its own "Pharmacutical Factory" which can produce opiates)
Pain Management:
Trigger Point Injection drives medication, usually just an anesthetics and alcohol for acute and mild cases, to anesthetics and corticosteroids. It adminstered to relax and "untangle" tight muscles, also to decrease inflammation.
Nerve Root Block drives medication to nerve root. Medicine of choice same as TPI. its effect is it temporarily "stuns" the nerve so that it would not be able to send back the pain impulse from injured area to the brain. Thus "blocking the pain"
Epidural Injection basically introduces the medication directly to spinal canal where your spinal cord is located. Its main purpose is to anesthesize the level in your spinal cord where the nerve root that supplies the injured area enters or "represented". It could also decrease the inflammation in that area specially if you have herniated disc big enough to impinge or touch that level of spine.
There are other more aggressive intervention, like surgery which is more complicated. LMK what specific surgery is in your thoughts!
 

nautilus

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Emmanuel, In you HNP case, if everything else above doesn't work, you could do research on Manipulation Under Anesthesia, as well as more aggresive but less invasive Endoscopic LASER Surgery. Then the fight with Medical Insurance company begins...
 

jaa1456

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Emmanuel, In you HNP case, if everything else above doesn't work, you could do research on Manipulation Under Anesthesia, as well as more aggresive but less invasive Endoscopic LASER Surgery. Then the fight with Medical Insurance company begins...
As far as all the Dr.s I have met and spoke with they all said the laser on the back was not an option. The nerve is to deep and on the other side of the bone. I'm going 2 years strong now on this crap, seems like I have exhausted every avenue.
 

emmanuel

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astoria
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that's some good info nautilus
My body has been telling me for the past ten years to stop but I didn't listen because of financial responsibilities add a couple of accidents and here I am
I never follow through with doctors because I tell them to be straight up with me and they make promises that they cant keep , give appointments and make me wait for 2 hours or plain just dont help .
I did have a place out in Hempstead that was great the PT staff was amazing but its a 1 hour drive for me .
My MRI from about 15 years ago said the same herniations as now but it also said degenerated disseased disk the I dont recall the newest MRI from the same place saying that .
My inversion table just came in yesterday it appears to give me a little relief .
I have always worked out and still do (very light weights now) and stretch daily though before this last episode I didn't stretch for a week because the winter was coming and I did nothing but ride my motorcycle .
Motorcycles for some reason bring relief to my back pain I dont know if its a mental thing ,the vibrations or just that Im so focused on the road that I tune out the pain.
 

Marcellina

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Merrick, NY
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I am in a similar situation. Was suggested surgery and given pain meds but dont want to use them and get addicted to them. I went to physical therapy 3x's a week for 8 months and didnt get rid of the pain. I was told surgery but have heard only bad stories from friends who have had the surgery so it just seems like you are trading one pain for another so who wants to go through that right?

I went to a pain management dr and had a series of epidurals done, the first one made the pain disappear and I was like a new person but the second one I had a severe reaction to the steroids they injected so I couldnt continue that route. Its a good option for you to explore though. Now I was told by the pain management Dr that I could do acupuncture and that would help heal the area(but my insurance doesnt cover that) or trigger point injections.

Hope these suggestions help. I would definitely go to a pain management dr efore even thinking about surgery.
 

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