Improper Billing!

[Aqua Pro Builder]

This is something I have always been preaching.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upsho...phone-bill-horror-stories-motivate-regulators


I decided to mention this one because we are heavy electricity users and a lot of times, we have been improperly billed but those money never get resolved except in the pocket of Con-Ed.

Yesterday, I received a call from a collector representing Con-ED for a pass due bill from my old garage. When I moved, I notified Con-ED to send me a final bill both by email and letter(to my new address) so that I know they closed the meter on the right date, not the next time they read the meter. I was hit with a 400+ bill even after I left. Of course, they did not send me anything or my luck is so bad that even Yahoo and USPS cannot reach me! I called and email them again sometime last month and nothing again.

I was surprised for whatever I requested, Con-Ed choose not to follow thru but instead when they need money, they can reach me. Oh, they always say-it's different department. Billing is always much more efficient than customer service and somehow info only share one way-when billing departments need it. LOL. Remember, I mentioned about my bills jumped 3 times during the period I was in Kansas? Con-Ed never sent anyone to investigate who stole the electricilty. I do feel that they are responsible for taking care of their own lines. My meter was outside the buidling and there was no taping from the inside of my garage so I am sure the electricity was taped outside my building and that means Con-Ed property.

Now my question is, is it because of monoply that larger company(including their workers) start to ignore their jobs, resposibilities and or simply starting to snack off. Or is it a cultural change that people in NYC becomes so inert to anything that complaints are being ignored. Do we really have to take everything to courts?

Lately, I have been trying to find any class action cases against AT&T wireless service in NYC so that I can be a witness because not only my service is bad, I found 8 out of 10 AT&T customers(that I asked) are having similar issues I have(well, to a little lesser degree.) Most of them said they are likely to stay with current service because of iPhone, not AT&T. I am still paying like $100 a month to AT&T and to receive drop calls and such in Main St Flushing, Bowery and Canal Street Manhattan when the BARS are full. Is it clear to the government that they should look into this communications and utilities giants? Consumer Affairs field inspectors are more frequent checking licenses of individual store fronts. How about FCC and Consumer Affair checking on whether they should even licence AT&T to operate in NYC? Then we can have a better carrier and a phone that everyone loves. :tongue1::shhh: Oops, I sense assassins are out to get me for suggesting that. :lol:

This sounds like a rant but I DO think we should be more aware of what has been taken away from us simply because inertness of ourselves, workers of giant company and our government.

 

[bizzarro]

Drop calls and AT&T is a fact of life, I don't live in NYC but my company is using AT&T and that is a common complaint w/ Blackberry phones and coverage sucks compared to VZ. Where my bro lives on the west side by Battery Park he doesn't get any signal on the floor he lives on but VZ manages to get a few bars. I'm not advocating either or is better, I haven't paid for cell phone use since 2005 when companies I worked at issued me a phone. I was debating on getting them to switch me from the VZ Tour to the AT&T Torch, I really only use the phone for email.

 

[TimberTDI]

I don't get it? As a customer it is your responsibility to be aware of charges. Perhaps this is a case of where someone decided to try and beat the system and take advantage of a "free" thing. There was no one else in Haiti who racked up a bill over $35,000?

Realize that T Mobile charges $.35 for sending international and $.15 for receiving texts. So even if she was only sending, she would have had to have sent 100,000 texts.



Steven

 

[Mattl22]

What ?

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I don't get it? As a customer it is your responsibility to be aware of charges. Perhaps this is a case of where someone decided to try and beat the system and take advantage of a "free" thing. There was no one else in Haiti who racked up a bill over $35,000?

Realize that T Mobile charges $.35 for sending international and $.15 for receiving texts. So even if she was only sending, she would have had to have sent 100,000 texts.



Steven

To me, I think customers are partially responsible for what the charges are but not ALWAY THE ONLY RESPONSIBLE PARTY. Have you seen a banking fine print so small and in lightened color that I need a magnifier to read even when I had 80/20 vision? There are zillion ways to cheat the unaware and less educated. These can be considered setting traps for the unaware to fall for it. That's what our current government is now trying to rectify fishy style of business and we should support it instead of blaming the consumers. Have you seen charges on your credit card that you have not even authorized? When you asked how they get the security code for authorization, the credit card company cannot answer and when you ask them to stop ALL of these type of charges in the future, the rep would say they cannot change the company policy-a policy that let companies to charge credit card holders without authorization. When you asked to refund, they are gladly to do it but why in the first place to let the fraudulent charges to happen and let those companies borrow your money(credit) for a while until you protest(find out?) What happened to the money not challenged? Why do they let their billing system to harass end users? You can ask them to put those companies on the blacklist but guess what happen. Years, later, same companies do the same trick again when they need to "borrow" money.

Let me give you one more personal experience. Years back, my bank bought Mxxine Mxxland Bank in their expansion to the US market and start to use Mxxine Mxxland's check clearing system. I had 4 checks that came in, say, date X. One of them is of a very high amount that make my account over draft for like $10 USD. The sum of the other 3 checks were smaller than the day's balance if they did not withhold the money for the bigger check. The system decided to bounce the other 3 checks and charge my acount 3 times of bounce check and one time of OD. The system could have been written to bounce the bigger check and clear the other 3 checks. Why don't the system do that? Most, if not all, lower ranking clerks did not see the problem when I mentioned it to them(a living example of lesser educated and/or the unaware would not immediately see this as an immoral business practice.) Finally, I mentioned that to the branch manager and she immediately thought it's very improper for a system to do this and start to make the calls to the supervisors in Mxxine Mxxland. It took long time for them to issue back the extra penalities they charged. Ironically, years later, a schoolmate of mine told me that he is part of the coding team that wrote those codes under instructions of their superiors-that's a money making policy to fool the unaware.

 

[Widdy]

Ironically, I see Paypal's TOS constantly violated here by sellers. Please refer to 4.5 of Paypal's User Agreement.

4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

Interesting how things are applicable when it's convenient but it's evil when the tables are turned. Don't get me wrong, I've been in banking/financial institutes for almost 20 years and you're not going to get a better group of dirtbags together than them; well maybe lawyers. But when it comes to responsibility of reading and understanding the TOS for the products they're purchasing/subscribing to, it's the consumer that has to be more proactive about it.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Ironically, I see Paypal's TOS constantly violated here by sellers. Please refer to 4.5 of Paypal's User Agreement.

4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

Interesting how things are applicable when it's convenient but it's evil when the tables are turned. Don't get me wrong, I've been in banking/financial institutes for almost 20 years and you're not going to get a better group of dirtbags together than them; well maybe lawyers. But when it comes to responsibility of reading and understanding the TOS for the products they're purchasing/subscribing to, it's the consumer that has to be more proactive about it.

A comparison of breaching TOS vs a fraud is irrelevant or misleading in this context. Charging without authorization could be treated as a fraud and/or crime. Insitutes knowingly allow that to happen are accomplices to the criminal act. Imagine if someone holding your card and charge it at a retail store. You would call police on them and they will be arrested. What's the difference between some one doing that in the convenience of their offices and yet banking(credit card) insitutes gladly accept those transactions without the proper security code?

 

[Widdy]

I'm talking about TOS of Paypal and credit card companies. Your experience with transactions without proper authorization/clearance is a different story. Take it up with your local Attorney General.

I don't have to imagine it happened, it did happen. I made 1 transaction that payment was via Western Union last year. 2 months later I was hit up with almost $10,000 (over 200 transactions) from purchases in New Delhi for local railroad services, plus a pair of airline tickets to Dubai. This is pull from my account via debit mind you, and no PIN was needed on their part.

But you seem to be lumping the 2; people not reading TOS and your experience of unauthorized charges together.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Response in Red

I'm talking about TOS of Paypal and credit card companies. Your experience with transactions without proper authorization/clearance is a different story. Take it up with your local Attorney General.

I don't have to imagine it happened, it did happen. I made 1 transaction that payment was via Western Union last year. 2 months later I was hit up with almost $10,000 (over 200 transactions) from purchases in New Delhi for local railroad services, plus a pair of airline tickets to Dubai. This is pull from my account via debit mind you, and no PIN was needed on their part.

WOW that's very dangerous, indeed!

But you seem to be lumping the 2; people not reading TOS and your experience of unauthorized charges together.

True, I have been lumping the two while only titling one due to the frustation.

 

[Widdy]

Response in Red



True, I have been lumping the two while only titling one due to the frustation.

I see that... that's alright. Vent on... you can only fight The Man so much before you and move on.

 

[beerfish]

Lately, I have been trying to find any class action cases against AT&T wireless service in NYC so that I can be a witness because not only my service is bad, I found 8 out of 10 AT&T customers(that I asked) are having similar issues I have(well, to a little lesser degree.) Most of them said they are likely to stay with current service because of iPhone, not AT&T. I am still paying like $100 a month to AT&T and to receive drop calls and such in Main St Flushing, Bowery and Canal Street Manhattan when the BARS are full. Is it clear to the government that they should look into this communications and utilities giants? Consumer Affairs field inspectors are more frequent checking licenses of individual store fronts. How about FCC and Consumer Affair checking on whether they should even licence AT&T to operate in NYC? Then we can have a better carrier and a phone that everyone loves. :tongue1::shhh: Oops, I sense assassins are out to get me for suggesting that. :lol:

Con Ed is one thing, but I'm not sure what the phone issue here is. Switch carriers. If I get a coffee at a shop and it sucks, I don't try to file a class action, I stop getting my coffee there. I don't expect the feds to come in and tell them that they're over roasting their beans.

If you want to use the iPhone, then suck it up and deal with crappy service. Apple made a deal with AT&T, you don't have to like it. You also don't need to sign a contract with a phone company unless you want them to subsidize the cost of the phone for you. Most people do because they don't want to pay the $500+ that these phones cost.

Sorry... I can get behind the Con Ed problems, but I'm tired of people complaining about their iPhone on AT&T. There have been complaints for years about the service on the iPhone, a little research would have told you about these issues. You wanted the phone, you signed the contract, now you have buyers remorse.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Con Ed is one thing, but I'm not sure what the phone issue here is. Switch carriers. If I get a coffee at a shop and it sucks, I don't try to file a class action, I stop getting my coffee there. I don't expect the feds to come in and tell them that they're over roasting their beans.

If you want to use the iPhone, then suck it up and deal with crappy service. Apple made a deal with AT&T, you don't have to like it. You also don't need to sign a contract with a phone company unless you want them to subsidize the cost of the phone for you. Most people do because they don't want to pay the $500+ that these phones cost.

Sorry... I can get behind the Con Ed problems, but I'm tired of people complaining about their iPhone on AT&T. There have been complaints for years about the service on the iPhone, a little research would have told you about these issues. You wanted the phone, you signed the contract, now you have buyers remorse.

I wish the carrier issue is so simple as what you put it. No one knows how many new customers they put on after you purchased(or signed a contract) the service. They are no regulation on that. Let say in day X you bought the service because you get OK service then. One or two months down the road, they signed up a lot more customers but the service has yet to catch up. Of course, no one put a gun to anyone's head to sign a money saving contract. Same goes with all the deception cases, no one put a gun towards the victims, but yet those deceptions are considered illegal. Well, providing bad customer service or even misleading advertising like "full BARs" or "best 3G network in US" or there are ONLY COUPLE pitholes in NYC while even in Bowery(major center of traffic in NYC) drop calls are frequent, are acceptable to you is fine with me but be prepared to accept this fact and not complaining when someone sell you a coral that does not look like the photo. You don't have to buy from him again, but don't complain nor ask for a refund base on your thoery of life. The truth is, we don't even have to live in NYC, I found At&T service is much better in the sub urban area.

The poor service of At&T in the city is mainly not a technical problem with the phone, it's that AT&T signs up too many customers without adding enough supporting hardware like towers, faster servers and such.

 

[noobzy]

Not gonna get too involved here... I don't get the phone bill bit because my line is the same cost every month - no exceptions. If it's more or less, it means there is a mistake, and VZ fix it. Phone charges are based on a system, and fine print is something everyone needs to be aware of.

Con ed though... that is a different matter. Energy charges are, as far as I understand it, completely made up from month to month. That is why your bill sometimes shows up as having a "correction" - they actually checked the meter and realized their estimate of what you would use (based on historical data and the season) was not what you used. If you feel you are getting ripped off, I strongly recommend trying to switch energy suppliers.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Phone charges are based on a system, and fine print is something everyone needs to be aware of.

I totally agreed.



Regulations on fine prints of credit cards are now in effect as of 2010 and I wish the same would go for all utility bills and TOS in most major business area.

 

[beerfish]

I used to have AT&T. I switched to Verizon because the service sucked. In that case my contract had expired, but I've also paid termination fees to get out of contracts when I felt I needed to. I don't understand what the issue is.

The problem I see here isn't the company, it's people not reading. Fine print or not, if you sign something you don't read or understand fully, you deserve what you get. I read every piece of everything I sign (including virtual signing by agreeing to terms of use). If I don't understand something, I get clarification before I sign it.

There's a reason a 10 year old can't sign a legally binding contract. By the time you're old enough to sign a contract, you should understand what you're doing and understand the consequences if you decide you want to break the contract.

 

[TimberTDI]

BTW don't write checks you can't cover and you won't get hammered with overdraft fees:duh:.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

BTW don't write checks you can't cover and you won't get hammered with overdraft fees:duh:.

I know some one is going to say that. I agreed what you said about not writing a check that one cannot cover. However, in that particular case, the probelm was due to an earlier error that the bank had when clearing another check that I received. I deposited the check it got stuck in the drawer of the bank. LOL-funny but true and it happened with the head teller of the branch too, supposing an experience worker. The issuer said the money was taken from his bank(which is true for 3 days-his account wass withheld of the fund for 3 days-so he thought the money is already takened and thinking I am lying) and my bank said the check/transsaction bounced. That check was $100,000.00 It took them 2 weeks to rectifiy that issue.

 

[beerfish]

I'm even with you on the bank practices. I actually had an issue where a bank bounced a check I wrote when I had the money in the account.

I had put in a cash deposit the day before the check went through to ensure that there was plenty of money to cover the check. The next day, the check went in and they bounced it. When I asked about it, they told me that the cash deposit was put in after 4, so it was processed the next day. Since they process debits before credits, they bounced the check, even though I my account showed more than enough money to cover the check.

If you stop whining about AT&T, we're in agreement! lol

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I'm even with you on the bank practices. I actually had an issue where a bank bounced a check I wrote when I had the money in the account.

I had put in a cash deposit the day before the check went through to ensure that there was plenty of money to cover the check. The next day, the check went in and they bounced it. When I asked about it, they told me that the cash deposit was put in after 4, so it was processed the next day. Since they process debits before credits, they bounced the check, even though I my account showed more than enough money to cover the check.

If you stop whining about AT&T, we're in agreement! lol

Well, so sorry I won't stop whinning about the AT&T because with sufficeint people whining about it, FCC may actually take up a class action without us asking an attorney to do it. By the way,

"Last year, [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]Sprint[/COLOR][/COLOR] paid a $17.5 million settlement over allegations that the company was improperly collecting money for customers to end their contracts."

BTW, you may get a refund(even though it may not be the whole amount) in the mail when that happens, LOL. Look, I got a refund of $8.81 years back from a class action settlement over AT&T in, I think, California or Florida(can't remember well) even though I have participate in that court nor even sign a testmonial. LOL.

 

[beerfish]

BTW, you may get a refund(even though it may not be the whole amount) in the mail when that happens, LOL. Look, I got a refund of $8.81 years back from a class action settlement over AT&T in, I think, California or Florida(can't remember well). LOL.

Class actions are great for lawyers, $8.81 isn't really worth the headache otherwise.

I'm just sick of everyone wanting a lawsuit to solve their problem. My service sucks, I'm going to sue because I don't like my contract. I fell off a ladder because I'm an idiot, it must be their fault. My kid got fat because I stuffed junk down his throat for years, need a lawyer...

My wife is an attorney and people will try to sue over everything you can think of. A woman once called her to file a lawsuit over a loaf of bread that she bought because it was moldy. She didn't eat it, no one got sick, but she wanted to sue. My wife told her to take it back to the store and get a new one.

In another instance, she got a call from a mother whose kid fell in a playground. The kid was screaming in the background, and when asked if the kid had been to a doctor, she said "No it just happened." She had called a lawyer before an ambulance.

This is the sort of mentality that causes things to be more expensive, since everyone needs billions of dollars in liability insurance.

Suck it up, learn from your mistakes, and don't sign a contract next time.