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brandon4291

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great! try to get me a morning test, just before lights on. If it's significant enough to register on a color-comparison test, it's a sure sign you need better ion/bicarbonate support. We can also infer that to some degree from your alk tests and no-dosing/aged tank situation. I wanted to add that it is very possible to have high pH in the presence of low alk...alk just works to eliminate the shifts and swings in pH that can run high to low throughout the course of a photosynthetic cycle, which removes pH-lowering CO2 from the water, for example. With decent carbonate/alk support your pH will still fluctuate, but not nearly as much and not so much as to stress the system which is currently happening IMO. Consider this notion as well, as hard as it sounds:

start over.

Although not required for success, you can still turn this around with Time (and big patience/faith in the new approach) a new dosing schedule, and hard work with water changes... But, with the size of nanos we work with it's so much easier to perform basic screwdriver surgery and chip off the corals you like from the stressed rock, glue them to new surfaces, and use all new LR and sand that hasn't seeded with the cyano fragments or spores, and other forms of eutrophication-in-the-making... I know how it sounds, but now that we've identified the husbandry practices that made this breakdown occur you can bet 100% (barring any hardware failure) your new approach will work and you won't have this or any other algae issue. The #1 thing I hope to achieve in this is a clean system, and trust in the activities within the pico reef that make it 100% predictable. I think there may be other ways to run a pico, but now that I've found one that works, in any container, I tend to recommend it over any other experimental approaches.

To rehabilitate this current system will require work and patience, why not cheat and start over with something that won't require hard work to regain? I don't blame you for accepting the bio-challenge, however, if you choose to use this current setup. That can be fun in it's own right. Also, I am really only referring to new live rock and a handfull of sand, I'd just use a paper towel to wipe the brown off the glass walls (leaving the beneficial bacteria intact) and replace sand and rock, filter media too. Just a bio-restart, not a hard reboot :)

Dosing: If anyone finds easier ways to maintain the high-alk/high calcium readings we seek in SPS systems consistently in the pico reef, let us know what works. I only know this systme worked for me, in all sub-gallon setups. The dosing on C-Balance two-part additives is surely 1/2 capfull in the mornings before lights on, alternating days of the parts a and b...skip weekends. Its okay to skip a day or two every now and then, but alternate days w/ skipping weekends keeps the water pristine and will grow that sps twice as fast.
For another comparison, I'd go ahead and retest your sytem with the next water change (test the change water/log the results) and sit some extra change water out to the side in a capped container. Preferably, 1/2 gallon worth. At the end of the week, test the calcium and alk readings in the non-used test water and compare that to the test readings you get from your tank at the end of the week, that will get us an even closer earshot of the acid/alk demands of your system and we can dose even closer to the required amounts. If you don't have C-balance, the other poular solutions that say to add one capfull per 20 gallons are roughly the same equivalent (Iveused capfull of Seachem alk supplement/Ca+++ as well). Start low-using any is better than none, but test the water first when using these proportions as I've only worked with C-Balance in these small containers.
 

Mihai

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Brandon, I checked it this morning and... HUGE SHOCK! The pH was something like 7.6 or 7.8 (down from 8.4). With such a pH swing I'm surprised anything survives (it is now clear why it doesn't thrive). The common wisdom is that Xenia and acropora are very sensitive to water quality, and 0.8 swings in pH are hardly small. In addition to that, I just measured the temperature: I also have a daily 5F temperature swing (78-83F).

I know that starting over is the easiest, but I'm not necessarily looking for the easiest: I don't have a close deadline to meet (I plan to take it to my office sometime in January) and I'm worried that starting fresh will doom the new rock and corals to the same fate if I don't fix it. I'd rather try to see what I can do to correct the problems with this setup (and if I fix it, then I can try to start again :) ). Besides, it's an excellent opportunity to learn.

So... I have to fix two things: pH and temperature.

For pH there seem to be two cures: one is increase the alk, and the other one is to decrease the CO2.

To increase the alk, I can add supplements, I'm not sure how much though. I guess that measurements will do the trick. A capfull (30ml) every other day seems excessive for a 0.5 gallon. I use 50ml daily on my 100 gal... Perhaps you have lots of SPSs that use the supplements.

The other method is to decrease the CO2. I would have assumed that a HOB filter in a tank with no macro-animals (largest is an amphipod) would keep the tank thoroughly aerated. It seems that I'm wrong. I'm thinking to stick an airline from an air pump in the HOB. That should do it, right?

Finally, with the temperature, I'm not sure what to do: I'm reluctant to stick a heater in the tank, I'll try to find one that is small enough to fit in the HOB.

I'll keep you posted if anything good happens :).

Thanks a lot for the help. I would have never thought that stress (pH and/or temperature) is the source of bad things, I thought that it's a "misterious" nutrient source (I'm still not sure why the algae thrive, but I know why the corals don't look like they should).

Thanks a lot,
Mihai
 

brandon4291

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I think these matters will correct your tank's issues. A few other points to ponder: don't rely on alk support and pH control to be the sole source of ionic address...the ratios of calcium and carbonate/bicarbonate are in close relationship if one is to have an ideal thriving reef aquarium, so don't address one without the other.

It's true you can use several ways to accomplish this, and people do it successful with unmatched dosers (relying on accurate and frequent testing) but the best (least work intensive and most reliable) way for a pico is the two-part dosing system. I know how far out of proportion the .5 capfull sounds, but realize you aren't playing on the same acid-generating field as you are in your larger reef. Per pound of live-rock/organism, that tank can dilute far more bioacids than your pico can with the same pound of LR/respiring organism. I find this phenomena not as pronounced in the new pico reef aquarium. It's that grandfather age (in terms of a pico reef) that brings the balance into play! Your aged pico simply needs more dosing, per unit of water, than your larger reef does because the internal acids have a far greater affect on pH and other chemical systems like calcification.

Just to save you a little more time and hassle, really consider this C-Balance from marinedepot.com. $10 bought with a checkcard or credit card online lasts 6-8 months in a pico and will keep your ca/alk in line with the best SPS calcium-injected systems! Also, you will not need to test one bit, this dosing system works 100% in any half-gallon setup-I've used it on at least 15 different long-term pico reefs. Half a capful of each doser, alternate mornings before lights on, skipping weekends with weekend 100% water changes (ideally, can skip every once in a while if gone) does the trick without any guesswork. I spent the last 5 years (and at least 3 grand worth of pico coral frags) getting all that guesswork in line! Once you address the temp issues, your pico will never fail again barring hardware or user failure.



Search results for "c-balance"


Two Little Fishies C-Balance - 32 oz
TwoLittleFishies C-Balance 32 oz., a two-part liquid supplement designed to make replenishment of calcium and buffering capacity easy. C-Balance replenishes calcium and carbonate a...

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Two Little Fishies C-Balance Calcium Buffer System - 2 Gal
TwoLittleFishies C-Balance 1 gal. Concentrate (Half filled 2 gal. container) A two-part liquid supplement designed to make replenishment of calcium and buffering capacity easy. C-B...

Item Code: TL1193 $27.39




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brandon4291

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one other note. On that old thread, ReefBowl II where I had that 16 gallon acrylic sphere-of-a-reef, I had really jacked the dosing system in that one early on while I was experimenting with these guesswork ratios. I knew my pico could support a strong dosage relative to the water volume without precipitation, so I at least figured a few caps a day would be fine for the 16 and even allow some wiggle room. Not so@!

I white-clouded the whole thing, stressed and killed some shrimp, and after a few hefty water changes (yes, 16 gallons is unreasonable work for a man spoiled on coffee-cup water changes) I went back to a 1-1.5 cap per day system that worked well. That's actually what the directions said :D
 

Mihai

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Thanks again Brandon,

I use R-Ionic (i.e., Randy's homemade balanced additive) on my 90 gal and it's working very well for that one. If I understood well his tests, the B-ionic uses actually the same source of CaCl2 as R-ionic (the Dow flakes), so unless you give me a good reason not to use the R-ionic (of course, in a balanced fashion - one day Alk, one day Ca) that's what I'll try... and I'll start with 1/2 cap/day = 1.5caps of balanced additive/week :).

Thanks,
Mihai
 

Mihai

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Note to self: one cap-full of R-ionic ALK will turn water into milk. Next time, I'll start small :).

M.
 

brandon4291

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Hey I think that sounds great. The fact it was designed to be a matched additive should work just fine, regardless of the brand. The amounts to dose will be the only variable. I bet it's not far off the C-balance mark, but I strongly recommend testing since we're using something new as far as pico reef use goes.

I recommend adding just a little, then testing right after the addition as well as several hours later on the same day, to check for upper limits and systemic consumption of the additive. If it stays pretty consistent, you've got your mark. BTW, I'd start with the alk, once that's identified, then try the same amount of calcium and run the same tests. Of the two, I'd suspect the pH-altering affects of the alk supplement to be the most risky to the system so that would be my initial test run of the two and I'd start at about 1/2 mil of the additive.

Also, I hate to retract my above dosings but I'd better clarify this before someone goes out and precips their pico reef based on my dosings from memory above...it's 1/2 capfull max of C-balance in the .5 reef, not one cap. For two years now I have been using a diabetic syringe to dose my .5's and I dose it up to the 2.5 mil mark, which is half a cap. I mistakenly recalled it as a 2.5 cap, when it's really a 5 mil cap on those bottles. Going back to edit the above text where I said I was using a full cap on the densely stocked pico reef... if the two additives are comparable, only tests will tell, then your half-cap idea is just about what I use. We'd be pretty lucky if they are indeed the same strength, so test accurately@!
 

Mihai

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R-ionic is 1.47 times less concentrated than B-ionic (according to my calculations), so I normally use 50% more than B-ionic recommends.
I did a 98% water change and everybody seems to be fine. I'm a bit puzzled regarding the precipitation process: when I added the Alk nothing happened. I watched it on purpose about 20-30s until all the cloud dissipated. But 5 minutes later when I passed by it was all milky. It's the first time it happened to me and I imagined that it's either in the beginning or never. It turns out that I was wrong.

M.
 

Simms142

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It looks like half of that zoa colony is melting. Check on it and if it is, clean off the dying polyps and do a wc, see if that helps
 

Mihai

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Nope, they're not melting. They're just not thriving due to the stress. They'll get better as I fix the problem.

M.
 

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